I prefer the “many enemies”-approach. I rather be strong and face many enemies, than do 1hp damage per hit, and face 1 enemy with 10k HP. It gives me more autonomy? over the battlefield. Where I feel I can make an impact where needed.
I’ve never paid any attention to coherence. I stay within the limits of the team, sometimes in the front, sometimes closer together. But I’ve never played around “being in coherence”, and I don’t think that’s how it should be played.
I agree that power creep can be bad. But DS has been a top tier contender for what? 2 years? Nothing really happened. The game didn’t snowball into an arms race to ever stronger weapons.
I think people are too focused on what others do. In my couple of thousand hours in the game, I’ve seen a handful of people who are actually legit GOOD with DS and can clear like no tomorrow. It’s a bit “making a mountain out of a molehill”, so to speak.
Same for coherency but Id like to add, as vet, the 505 radius is really underrated.
It obviously keeps your team with the buff easier as youre often shooting kark roleplaying as space Kerillian, but it also gives you mroe ammo refills, more survivability from TDR being in coherency, and lets you shout onto the whole team a lot easier. I also take 15% of my toughness replenished given to team in every build, + toughness on headshots and use precision weapons, so I pretend I’m helping despite 1-2 las rounds totally shredding toughness anyway… its still nice.
These simple perks warrant their own thread for attention, are very underrated, and while I also do nto strictly play with coherency in mind, it has its benefits and its fun to make use of it. Its quite fun to Shield eeryone when you have to use it for yourself, safe in the knowledge you have the tdr and ammo refills to boot.
I think a balance is best, the horde aspect should not be neglected and it should not go into any extreme, either too many or too little.
I do not know the entire history of the game I admit but I have seen a similar scenario develop in other games. The power creep being left untouched can lead to the game losing its core. That being a team overcoming challenges by working together and learning the mechanics.
But there’s not a whole lot of working together as there is a power fantasy. The power fantasy is has its place too but it has led to the game treating difficulty in a rather shallow way. We’re mostly just getting more of the same pile up at once. There’s no unique enemies appearing in higher difficulties, just more of them with more HP. It’s just a blanket increase of power levels.
And this is almost surely a result of the creep being left untouched, players asking for more after it trivialized current content and then following content being made with the creep in mind.
The game could give us more meaningful archetypes. Crushers with different weapons and different movesets, maybe a Mauler that has a shotgun before closing in on melee range. A Bulwark with a gun. Not spam them, but make them meaningful threats the team has to be aware of and coordinate to take down. Maybe add no downed modifier to it.
That’s what I think meaningful difficulty should be with ideally most weapons having a role, as well as different builds and skills having their role. I want others to have fun, I want to have fun myself, but currently my level of fun can to an extent be influenced by what others choose to bring and do, in a negative way.
And like the other one guy up there, you want others stop enjoying the game for sake of your excitement. It’s quite ridiculous opinion and definetelly not a solution.
All this scary things you mentioned that ruin your expirience and still not everyone on the mourningstar have a true survivor title, so in my opinion, there is no problem at all. You talking about “challenging boss fights”, but there are no such thing, this is just far-fetched argument. All pre-havoc content is a steam-roll today and havoc is just a bloody mess with 3 boss spawns and ridiculous bullet sponges instead of enemies, so still no “carefull dodging and positioning”.
My opinion is, that it’s better to have such broken stuff to compensate skill issue of randoms, rather the 10 lost games in a row because of people can’t press buttons right. It’s a coop game with randoms, so yeah it efffects expirience both ways and there is only one solution to this: play with premade group.
And more important, the vast majority of players can’t press buttons right, but they can buy a DLC, a new hat for their smiker, etc. People want a powerfantasy and dominate in a horde game, not dodging and positioning around the boss. Havoc is almost dead because of that, and because of that we’ve got all this powercreep today instead of beta/release tryhard every mission even on heresy.
Bulwarks die from purgatus, crushers die from bolter, while zealot holding them with chorus. Ogryn either deal tones of damage or play a taunt bot and then zealot and psyker with flamer and purgatus destroy the whole horde.
Sure you dodge around them to keep them in a blob infront, but you don’t rly pay attention to every telegraphed attack and you don’t interract with enemies as a separate entities. Partialy cause how toughness mechanic is forgiving - take hit, refill toughness, take another hit, repeat.
In V2 specials are much more dangerous (atleast was before the least DLC careers were added). Blocking halberd overhead last second is a pure adrenaline rush. Even trash mobs poke can eat 1/3 of your HP. Since dodge isn’t that OP in V2 you must use block and shove. In DT block almost doesn’t exist, you block only when you kite.
Tides clearly was inspired by Dark Messiah, and in V1 and V2 there were a personal enemy moments kinda, almost PvP simulation against worse players. DT in the current state completely lost it.
I’m not asking for an experience like Havoc where Auric only succeeds once every ten tries, nor do I intend to force that on anyone. What I’m talking about is difficulty settings based on a normal standard. I simply don’t believe that an environment where beginners can repeatedly spam Chorus, VoC, or Smite and easily clear the highest difficulty is a good thing, it renders the meaning of difficulty meaningless.
If you want to enjoy power fantasy and feeling strong, please feel free to lower the difficulty. I recommend Sedition. You won’t need to dodge, and there’s almost no need to avoid bursters either. Enemies can be taken down easily with any weapon, so I think you’ll find it very fun.
Ah, I almost forgot. There’s actually a perfect game mode for that, Mortis Trials. In that mode, you can gain god-like powers, so wouldn’t it be better to play that instead? I get the feeling that Mortis was created specifically to meet the needs of players like that.
No I don’t. I don’t care if people use sub-optimal builds or overpowered builds, the only time I do care if adversely affects the game. If a guy can just stomp out the major parts of game single-handedly because of a single tool, that’s when I have a problem. Assail used to destroy everything in the game up to maulers with little cooldown so you can just assail the entire game with little recourse. People complained and now it’s nerfed- and for the betterment of the game even if it’s still very strong.
No? It’s just really niche. The hard-game mode that’s made to be hard in a niche game with a playerbase that’s still learning how to commit to harder content isn’t going to get as many players as the base-game, it’s true. Yet despite that, I still get havoc games going everyday- especially during peak hours
I honestly really missed those personal moments where you’re able to just go one-on-five with armored elites in this game rather than it just being another horde but has more slightly more tankier that you just AOE to death.
Yes, V2 is a harder game. I have 200 hours on it, and I enjoyed it.
I prefer Darktide much more though, I’m nearing 3k hours. And I think Darktide doesn’t need to be Vermintide in space, especially considering that all the changes (ranged combat, faster movement, flashier abilities) were made deliberately during early development to attract wider audience and to make the game something different.
I’ve recently 100% Elden Ring Nightreign by getting all achievements, and you know what? That game doesn’t require as much dodging as Darktide currently is at its highest difficulties.
It can’t be the V2 in space because of modern movement. The problem is that enemies in DT are copypasted from V2.
And it’s good. In DT you basicaly spam dodge just incase to avoid hits, not because you rly need to react on something, it’s more a precognition tool. In all fairness it is so in V2 also, but since dodge isn’t that strong in V2, you have a window in your attacks, when enemies can hit you, so you need to react and block overhead, then shove trash mobs, then pick out armored with heavy, etc. You interract with enemies via such micro moments.
In DT you can’t have that cause 10 red crushers with 5 trappers behind will not allowed it, so it’s just about killing/stagger them before they start doing anything.
Like, i don’t even push poxbombers with melee when i play vet, i just use VoC, cause cooldown doesn’t matter. Back in the days when people just found you can shove them during their dive it rly was a cool combat feature.
And if we are talking about higher density then it should be achived with new enemeis with new mechanics, not just increasing spawns of the same enemeis over and over after every overbuff, because they were never designed for that in the first place.
But havoc is highest difficulty right now, like it or not. Normal is a joke, auric is kinda joke, but AM can be intence even with today’s powercreep in some circumstances.
Again about telling others what to do, you can’t control it in any way, so why bother. People will come to auric difficulties for rewards. If they can’t clear it, they will leave the game and will not buy hats, so devs will be always oriented on them and their comfort and excitement. Plus all normal is just 0 fun.
It could be like cataclysm in VT2, max difficulty with same rewards, so you playing it only for fun and challenge with quite low chance of weak players, but it’s not. We’ve got a havoc.
I get a feeling that mortis is just a bad joke tbh. And it was dead on arrival.
im clearing havoc 40s on a frequent basis but ok
and yes i play off meta matches often enough when i play with equally skilled players who want to do different loadouts for a change
but nerfing everything strong just so people can stroke themselves about being good enough ( most of them arent they just want to nerf everything they personally dislike) to do it and feel better than some people who would struggle without meta options isnt the win you think it is and just shows what a dumb elitist you are
but hey most people here want to remove havoc anyway and return to auric snoozenations
and yes they were already boring even before havoc got introduced if you were good enough
The point is that people aren’t entitled to play the hardest mode in the game if their skill set isn’t up to it.
If you need OP meta weapons to barely hold your own you lack the skill to do so and shouldn’t be playing at that level. There is nothing wrong with that. People tend to forget that. There’s also the fact that Havoc 1-39 exist.
The entire “don’t nerf in pve!!!” debate boils down to people having egos that can’t take being unable to clear the hardest modes.
Meanwhile the rest of the rest of the game is an absolute shtshow due to how OP player power and weapons have become.
Do you personally forbid this, my little elitist clown? And if they do, what’s then? What are you going to do, stamp your foot angrily? Some of you forum clowns should remember that you are not main heroes.
Said the clown, offended by the video game being too easy for his liking. Run to your cozy discord room and stop trying to act cool in front of adults. Cursed tiktok gereration.
I’m about havoc 30 in terms of skill. In public groups anyway. I’m a bit tired of the whole nerf everything perspective. Lots of us use the stronger stuff because the game is hard enough to require it in a lot of situations. I’m a mostly psyker player for example, and the difference between taking venting shriek versus telekine shield is crazy. Just by putting up my shield I can invalidate half the specials, elites, and even a few bosses just by having it exist.
The difference between having that shield versus the twins or not is insanity alone. With it I can basically nullify the ranged twin while we just pummel the melee one. With it I can neuter a beast of nurgle almost entirely. With it I can avoid being instagibbed by a shooter.
I think some people just need to accept that they’ve hit the pinnacle of what the game has to offer. Havoc 40 is plenty hard enough for probably 98% of the community. It doesn’t need to be harder and if you think it does you might need to tone back your expectations a bit. I swear, if some people had it their way we’d have havoc 100 by now and thats not a compliment.
