The only elephant in the room is Vet’s Tactical Awareness which somehow survived this long in this state while pretty much everything else was hammered down.
A lot of people don’t consider pressing one button and clearing and entire screen or turning the game off via ability spam to be fun.
By that logic why can’t you have fun in lower difficulties with ‘weaker’ weapons?
Just lower the difficulty if you hate having to compete in harder difficluties
There is a healthy middle ground.
It never was
They don’t improve because they rely on getting carried by meta loadouts. Hence them buckling under the weight of all the mechanical skill they’re missing, when the game ramps up.
Original hard mode twins was the biggest skill filter the game had, and skill issued people’s yapping even got that nerfed. Simply because they couldn’t bear the fact that they didn’t have a big boi trinket.
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Why are you so concerned with how people play in public lobbies, literary never seen you host a Havoc 40 public lobby. Last time I saw your videos, you play with the same five people.
I’ve met lots of talented players in Havoc 40, meta loadouts or not, you guys are so petty with your build policing
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They don’t play with the playerbase, they play in their little friend circles of 2k+ hours players. Their “concern” about balance is secretly them being salty that some people can perform on their level, even if they have to run meta builds to achieve that.
Most good players in Havoc 40 literary don’t give a flying f if somebody runs Duelling Sword or not, I’m happy to play with anyone who pulls their weight. Actually, if people play with easy loadouts they’re comfortable with, I can also play whatever non-meta loadout I want without putting pressure on my team by not picking only the best stuff
You can see it in their forum posts, they never admit if someone is good outside of their friend group, they only care about their own experience. They don’t care that if Fatshark went the way of drastic nerfs that these players wanted, the game would be unplayable for people that don’t have premade. They think that by nerfing stuff people will stop playing difficulty they’re not supposed to be in and “carried” players will not exist, funny XD
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It seems like you are an ogryn player that don’t know how valuable cdr talents are for the other three classes. You only think about urself cause the cdr talents makes other classes strong that they do not need ur tanking and damage.
OP is not wrong.
Zealot’s CDR are a little too strong (and I play zealot as main). But psyker aura and talent are also a problem
This impacts the entire team… this is too much…
And this one, in Auric, is leading to trhe possibility to spam VoC:
This one however is fine…
Must say that the CDR that relies on kills (even the ogryn one) are, or useless at low difficulty, or too strong in Auric. They should change the trigger.
And for psykhenetic aura, they should rename it and make it personal for the psyker. The aura gives a HIGH CDR bonus to the team. No need for an other team bonus.
For zealot, I have said it by the past, but let’s repeat it:
- IoD is way too strong. I would say cut it by half
- Pious Pious Cut Throat should be nerfed a little as it permits to spam shroudfield
- Martyr’s purpose should give a permanent CDR bonus (like seer’s presence) that scale with health lost. The amount of bonus has to be tweaked to find the balanced value. Like that I would try 50% as a first try
Zealot, especially fury the faithful builds, relies on the idea you will use it a lot and should be able to use it close to the spamming (you even have a talent to get 2 charges just for that). But IoD is really too strong…
I’m not sure what point you are trying to prove by posting a scoreboard of a psyker wiping the map from the safety of a bubble but ok.
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These screenshots are just to proof that I play Havoc 40 with randoms, nothing else.
Don’t get triggered at people playing the game the way it’s designed. It’s not even me who played Psyker.
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Tunnfisk mentioned! 
And I agree with you and share similar experience with high-end players of many other games (mainly MMOs). A game will never be challenging enough for a dedicated, multi thousand hours played, team of friends grinding together. So them dictating what can and should be for the rest of the 99.99% of the player base, isn’t something I take as gospel.
I’ve always held the idea that all levels of a game should be accessible to all players, if they put in the time and effort. So there will always be meta builds and weapons to help tip the scales in their favor. Most of the players won’t reach that, because they don’t want to spend 2k hours “gitting gudd” in the game, and that’s fair.
I never concern myself with how others play, or what others gain as benefit from ease of use and very powerful weapons. I try to only speak from my own experience, what I think can be done, what perhaps should be done. Never as an attempt to “keep lesser players in their seats”.
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Balance = difficulty = fun
Mortis is the place for power fantasy (and I am so for it) but missions should be kept tight imo.
Would still be nice if we could choose our own maps and modifers though!!! We’ll see what the update brings…
Biggest balance consideration imo. The “proc on elite/special kill” condition is situationally OP – being shout Vet on a Hounds map is a massive power trip lol. I think your 0.5s cd suggestion makes sense, and they’ve done it with multiple abilities already anyway (ammo aura, Zealot crit CDR).
In some ways I like that it scales with difficulty – you need it more surely. I find flat CDR a little boring (oh, it’s 54.2s instead of 60s joy), so while I appreciate that it’s a fun condition to meet (killing stuff yay!) there are interesting game situations that such a power negates entirely.
It IS fun in it’s own way though, so I guess it’s a good kind of broken 
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Just accept that braindead zoom zoom moba/mmo piano gameplay for an action combat game is a mistake. Ability should be a situational tool, not your 3rd weapon.
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It doesnt matter past 35. You either have a good team and good players or a kark team and kark players. No meta loadouts can carry that.
Multiple dueling swords in a pub lobby that doesnt kite/position will get overrun and wiped 9 out of 10 times unless theres enough pressure release from a ranged player or a beefy Ogryn.
I’m glad some weapons are getting buffs, but I personally think theyre too much, but I’ve been vocal about all the weapons getting buffs so yeh. While I’d like to keep the game difficult, it doesnt amtter how strng weapons are if players arent good enough to use them, and that wont change. You’ll get the same low-skill elitists gatekeeping lobbys and you’ll get the same unknowns that warrant e-stares every match. The game is built around spamming abilities and killing.playing tor educe those abilities. Its pretty simple and fun, but a lot of players need t omake things seem complex to fuel their petty egos.
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Just accept noone will ever listen to you when you prsent your fact as opinion. It was mentioned earlier that ability spam being so OP isnt true as referenced by lower difficulties still dying. Its a teamwork game, teamwork and effective synergy is the strongest weapon.
Just accept i replied in the same manner as the original post was.
It’s not even about OP or not. It’s an action combat game, the difference from mmo piano gameplay is that in mmo you don’t have a good impactful moment to monet combat, so going in loop with abilities string is how you play.
In DT we have a good combat, movement shmovement, melee chains, etc. Meanwhile you play Havoc 40 by just spaming nades and VoC (peak action gameplay), placing domes every 1m and playing 1 button purgatus, same with flamer+chorus, rumbler, taunt.
Sure, how is it relevant to the fact gameplay shifted from utilizing your weapons, learning enemy patterns and managing blitz and ability towards move only with dome+chorus, throw explosions and infinite cleave and everything at the meatwalls, because enemies as a separated enitities you need to pay attention to, it just doesn’t exist anymore.
Why we even have ammo, and cooldowns in the first place, lets just remove them. And also remove stamina. The more buttons you push without any brain activity involved the better.
Just make a build without crd talents then. Good thing that we all have an option how to build, right? I can’t remember any hardlocked cdr talent, so feel free to play without them and don’t tell others how to have fun the “right way”.
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That’s one perspectively and I definitely see your point. But another perspective, coming from me as a relatively new player, just 100 hours or so, is that letting things go rampantly imbalanced has other downsides too.
I like to try weapons, test stats, blessings and the skill tree by myself to discover it organically, but that usually leaves me behind and the team just buzzes forward flicking their wrist with the duelling swords killing off squads after squads of Crushers as if they’re nothing. Sure I could get better and just compensate with skill, but it’s not my point.
What others do should be their business but in this case what they do forces the game down a path of, in my opinion, lazy difficulty and lack of a need to cooperate, not what the game I think should be. Game now spawns 300 gunners and 100 crushers and calls that difficulty. Teams don’t need to cooperate much they just need to kill and kill as lone wolves. I even saw advice at times to ignore the team coherency mechanic.
It’s starting to feel like we’re not a team of unfortunate “volunteers” sent to deal with bad odds, but a group of lone wolves who just so happen to be in the same area and should focus entirely on their own business.
As it stands, to me it looks like instead of cleaning up the proverbial “wound”, the game lets it fester and just works around it, leading to questionable health in future. If you leave the obvious outlier alone then balance the game based on it, then the other worse weapons will be left even further behind.
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honestly, even as ogryn main (and only played character) having CDR nerfed would almost come as a relief.
before i got the mandatory titles/blingbling/40 tag, if not straight out rejected it was "do you have cdr,cdr, seeeeedeeeeaaaarrrrr.
felt like a kafkaesque spongebob meme come to live.
yeah, i like my bullrush
yeah, its fkking effective playing bowling with a school of crushers >8 over and over again.
but truth be told, its boring as heck.
same reason i dont use the bully 3 club lest its light spam turns my brain into mush, i prefer chaining some combos into my krourk IV that feels like actually fighting.
add the punch special and you can kill a crusher with 2 combos even if i dont have carapace on it in favor of flak/unyielding.
so not being able to roflstomp every 10 seconds and being pestered about it, would let me experiment more with my build/curios to suit my playstyle, which i’d book as a win 
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This is a PvE game, and the weapons or playstyles used by other players do affect my experience. As players, we don’t get to choose who we team up with. If there were filters like “No Ogryn,” “No Chorus,” “No Bubble Dome,” or “No DS,” I’d gladly use them. But that’s not possible, and frankly, it wouldn’t be fun anyway. Even kicking someone requires agreement from the rest of the team, which is nearly impossible.
From my perspective, I might be enjoying a challenging boss fight, carefully dodging and positioning. Then a Zealot shows up, spamming Chorus. Suddenly the boss can’t move at all, and my experience instantly turns dull. It completely ruins the fun, so I just leave the match. I start another game, only to find a Smyker this time. Every enemy on the screen becomes a punching bag, and the fight loses all sense of tension. There’s no satisfaction in playing like that.
With things like this happening so often, it’s impossible to enjoy the game properly. As a result, I’ve significantly reduced how often I play.
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I have no idea why you assume I’m the sort of player you’re describing. I play whatever I feel like, I can make everything work (even moreso after the upcoming patch) and I enjoy engaging with the game. Im not this mutated strain of subversive no brain (except for subversion likely from The Manual) metapickers that think their playing a PVE deathmatch game.
I completely concur every single word in this statement wholeheartedly. Everything sub-havoc feels like a boring steam-roll when all challenge can be just removed by 1 person bringing mass-stagger or golden toughness completely invalidating the game.
C-I-VI is my favorite maelstrom type. The tension of getting one-shot by a stray overhead while the team is surley cornered while everyone tries to frantically tries to stifle the oncoming blob of armored units threatening to wipe the team in seconds- gets absolutely shattered by a single smite psyker or a shout vet just invalidating the only source of potential sense of fire-under-your-ass that gamemode has. It happens all the time, to the point where I just flat-out refuse to touch that maelstrom anymore because I know I’ll have to be hopping lobbies for 20 minutes just to find a game that has semblance of difficulty.
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