I think I'm done

Warhammer 40,000: Darktide General Discussion
21

Some people sure are, but it is not about that.

It is about the crafting system dangling a carrot in front of your face, then beating the crap out of you, when you try to take a bite.

It is about every interaction with the system feeling terrible, because your time is being wasted by the system each time you interact with it.
You can not earn anything. You can not progress towards anything.
Even if you just want to experiment, you usually have to start from an other grey weapon and can not build upon what you already have.

Even if you do not want to min max
And even if the effective difference between an item with 350 base and T3 bonuses vs a 380 base with T4 bonuses is not necessarily big, it just feels terrible to constantly have to eat the sh*t you are being fed by the crafting system.
Nothing feels earned. You just light the ressources from tens or hundreds of hours of farming on fire and hope that you actually get close to what you want. Usually you do not, and you gained absolutely nothing.
If you ever get what you want, after painful interactions with this garbage system, a balance change might again reduce it ashes, with no way of saving it (even a “godroll“ item can be ruined later on).

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22

I would agree to some extent: eking out that last drop from the weapon, when there’s such a plethora of other factors, really is small fry.

But there’re two things personally for me.

  1. How good am I? Can I get better? If not, can I crack the very top tiers with a different build?

So - I play T5 on all four avatars. On some I’m pretty happy with T5 HiStg. But only on some builds. I’m pretty sure I’ve peaked for basic skills, so I want to try different play styles.

Real world: I went from being able to do T5HiSTG with my surge psyker build to NOT being able to with recent changes. Is that me out of practice? Has the game changed, and I’ve not adapted? I’ve chatted to a few people: I think I’d like to try a different sword blessing to take advantage of rending (which wasn’t a thing I needed before). I’d have to drop down to a much lower damage sword to try it, and it doesn’t have quite the perks I’d want to do a like for like comparison.

i.e. I can’t craft what I’m after right now to know, so I’m putting that playstyle aside for a bit. That feels detrimental to game variety.

Bear in mind I’m 800 hours in, so I’ve a stack of “nearly” weapons, as well as some good ones. But I can’t mix and match. It’s not that I haven’t tried. And (edit here) - I would add that I’ve been camping the brunt store for MONTHS on the Chrome shop plugin, so I’ve been picking up good grey/green/blues and trying them at Hadron for a long time. Far more cycles of that shop than any normal player could.

  1. I could knock Melk out of business, single-handedly, overnight.

My unwanted oranges could populate a full rotation for several weeks, maybe months. They’re each worth 2000 Melk gold, and most are better than the crud he sells, but I’m going to get a measly 6k ordos or something for each if I sell them.

I have so MANY nearly weapons. Currently each of them represents hours of wasted “progression”. I should be able to recycle them back in to something more meaningful than 6k ordos. Crafting resources. Melk gold. Scoured profane weapons. Anything really. It’s just disrespectful of my time (in terms of promoting ‘progression’ as a thing in game), and not really very “real world logical” ~ someone would buy them from me for more than brunt would.

But as the OP stated, basically if the craft doesn’t work out better than what you have, you’ve got a brick. No, worse than that, some mud. A brick has use after all. My mud has no value.

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23

Learnt long ago to treat as a casual game.

Completely understand how many people are really into optimised weapons. It is up to the stage where it isn’t whether or not can complete Auric missions, but how fast and how effective in terms of speed run. Have not seen any threads recently saying Auric is too hard or too easy, so I guess difficulty is currently in the right place.

That extra breakpoint does make a difference i.e. 3 shots to kill a crusher as opposed to needing 1 more shot when it is already at few % health left goes a long way to clear out 6 of them running towards you and limited time before they get too close.

But true it is about having fun to try out “new” builds not just about meta but fun ways. i.e. In Division 2 the meta was critical builds for all out single target damage, but sometimes people created AOE bleed, burn builds for fun factor. Players were often kicked if they didn’t have single target damage builds on Legendary missions!

Hordes in DT are not much of a threat, so I see alot of players run single target damage builds.

Aim for 3-4 meta weapons per class. You’ll get burned out going for 100% optimised weapon collection per class. Anything else comes your way, OK great, if not don’t sweat it and let it come over time. No rush.

Skip the RNG. Whilst playing T5 missions you will come across a good stat weapon with 2 perks/blessings wanted already rolled out, then it means you can choose the last 2. Only then engage with crafting. No materials lost. It is definitely slower process but at least you never feel wasting materials based on dice rolls.

One ideal weapon - The materials/dockets to play the dice game is actually equivalent to many hours of mission time to farm. Then consider the time spent running back and forth between armory and crafting station taking you away from time spent on actual missions.

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24

Human Nature, and survival instincts its mandatory to seek the most efficent ways to hunt or store or build etc to give you the best odds.

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25

There’s a catharsis in moving away from DT, OP.

I got into DT with great excitement, burned out, got back, burned out again and finally managed to snap off. Since then, I’ve gained a renewed appreciation for good design, respect for my time and my wallet…

Go, be free!

Also, mandatorily:

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26

While I agree with the idea of what you’re saying, I don’t think it’s that simple.

Yes, there are definitely people who are just min-maxing for no reason, becoming their own worst problem. I started out that way too. In almost every other game I’ve ever played, BiS or not makes real difference. But not Darktide. Most gear reach their best breakpoints for often every single enemy & cleave with far below 380 base score, barely above 70% in primary stats, even with two T3 perks and/or blessings. Not all, but most. Of the ones that don’t, most can usually compensate with talents. Them, us, need an attitude adjustment.

But what about the new players? Don’t forget what it was like back then. Obviously I’m not advocating for just letting everyone have the best gear instantly and easily, progression matters like it or not. But HOW that progression is made is important. New players with few resources, money and next to no blessings are completely reliant on the RNG and the timegated stores.

A new Zealot for instance can’t even choose what weapon to use! They’re completely reliant on that RNG above and those useless base score ~300-310 mission rewards to get anything at all. For the first month or more depending on how much time you have to play, RNG is everything. So you’ll have to constantly compromise between playing how you want, or playing with what random stuff you got that’s strong and actually works - if you got anything at all in the first place.

That complete lack of agency hits those players the hardest, who need it the most. It doesn’t bother me anymore ofc, but I’ve played since release. I doubt anyone thinks it’s great design if you need the 2k+ hours I have to get to a point where the RNG is little more than a curiosity anymore.

Case in point btw: Today just as I was typing this post… I finally got the Man-Stopper blessing off the store! Because it’s T2 exclusive, you can’t even farm it at lvl 30. So it only took ONE YEAR AND 2 MONTHS, with 2k hours total in the game, to finally be able to make a cleaving crit shotgun build! … seriously wtf. But sure, to be fair I’ve only been actively logging on with my zelly & vet to really look for it for the past 3 months. Because that makes it all better right? :joy:

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27

Because the concept of breakpoints exist. Having to shoot enemies twice when it could have been once makes a big difference. Some of those breakpoints can only be made with +25% damage AND the correct blessings.

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bro even if you did get a god roll, it’s only a god roll until the final tier of items is released

when will that be? who tf can say

30

I can testify that if you do this, you can expect to wait over 6 months for a combination you need.
Seriously… it’s THAT rare. Really. THAT rare.

PS I agree with your sentiment otherwise :slight_smile: But the odds of you getting a good base roll, and hadron being kind are almost 0. The chances of you getting a blue with great base stats and two blues that you want are almost 0. In that currency bug period, I crafted around 100 basic grey/green/blues from my inventory to orange level, and other than the odd blessing extractions - of which there were fewer than you’d expect, I’ve ended up using one of them (Columnus Infantry Autogun). True story.

Real world time - I’d estimate 6 months for a casual player.

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31

About that calculator, anyone have a set of directions? Or just a list of break point examples?

Because I hear more advanced players talk about it, and honestly I DO get the concept, if you want to down a baddy with one shot who has 100 head HP you don’t want a shot that does 99 damage.

But I don’t really know where these breakpoints are and what weapons are most subject, (Though I can tell the rapid fire is less important since you have more shots faster. )

Still, there’s that big calculator and it’s not exactly user friendly. Is there a guide?

32

Yep, I’ve always wondered about this since the moment I saw the items max at 80%

33

Honestly, not that I know of.

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Since you mentioned force swords…

Just made a completely hypothetical weapon. I did special activation and heavy 1 attack and chose some enemies. See what damage you’re doing.

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Then you could change it to break point mode. You could even see what happens if stats were able to get above and beyond 80%

From reddit: "The different colors represent the type of hit the enemy can receive from the particular attack you have selected. If you hover over them the note says what they are, such as a hit to the center mass, a weakspot hit, a critical hit to the center mass, and a critical hit to the weakspot.

If your damage mode at the top corner is set to breakpoint, the first number outside the parentheses represents the number of hits it will take to each zone for the enemy to die. The percentage within the parentheses represents how much more damage you’d need to reach the next breakpoint threshold and kill it in one less hit. This is good for checking if one of the damage against enemy type perks will push that attack into the next bracket if it looks close enough."

Granted your talents can affect this for sure.

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34

I’ve seen this linked a few times and once again I can’t figure out how to use it. Using Trauma, all it shows is either the primary fire or the special attack, can’t get it to show charged secondaries with full blast. So every possible combination of value claims even flak trash takes several hits to kill when I know a Trauma with +25% flak will 1-shot all of that.

Now I also tried it with the Agripinaa shotty, and whether the special is active or not and no matter which firing mode I pick, none match the real power of the slug shot.

Help please? I tried to google for help but didn’t get anything. :slightly_frowning_face:

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35

Here is another angle. When I did engage with RNG crafting I used to set myself a target for a weapon. Mass buy, reroll, sell…then maybe few days/weeks later a better version just dropped onto my lap out of sheer chance and realised the initial effort was wasted. Happened so many times, so I thought forget this and just play for the journey and not end result. Now I play without RNG. Not much gain, but hey zero loss at least.

I really did try to look at it the other way where if I got everything I wanted. Then I have no feeling of progression to work towards. But then I still enjoyed Left 4 Dead 2 without crafting mechanics anyway.

But I agree and know…it is months. My docket cap reached and it was only thing that made me feel progression of getting richer for sake of it.

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36

Yeah looking at Trauma the numbers don’t make sense to me (I never used that staff, always a void strike person myself). Something probably off with the charge level maybe. Although your talents will increase those numbers. It was updated December 2023. It would be nice if they integrated your talent choices into the tool.

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37

As a normal human that has no social presence.
I made 10 other people buy Vermintide 2 by singing the gospel its amazing coop game for all skill levels. (When they made 300 gear obtainable from veteran they made me really happy since even basic casul has the path for max level geared character and just pure power fantasy.)

When DT was announced I was creaming my pants.
Now Iam telling people to avoid it like a plague. Gameplay is good (when its bugged with spawning AI) but everything else is sh-t.
The itemisation being this sh-t is the reason that all those other people who play/played V2 didnt even buy DT yet.
GJ Fatshark 12+ months of ignored feedback, truly a wonderful business model

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38

You know, maybe we should examine where Fat Shark’s money is coming from.

How many subscription services is Dark Tide on?

It might be no one is buying the game except corpos looking to expand their subscription portfolio and that would mean it really doesn’t matter if the game is good because the people paying for it aren’t the people playing it.

39

Wah wah wah. Another cry baby wants everything now. Y’all are weak.

40

Lol this is just wrong, I have two revolvers, one is 360 and another is 365. One of them has no guaranteed gunner headshot.

Seems like a night and day difference.

And these percentages you’re calculating and comparing, they are just not relevant, don’t bother.

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