I hope this helps to improves the animation of "pole-arm" weapons in the game

yeah that’s fair

I do apologize, my post wasn’t directed at you specifically :stuck_out_tongue: also apologies for slightly derailing the thread

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With billhook pushatk reverse sweep (from left side), Saltz does change the grip, swapping his hands position, left arm goes from low to high. And after pushatk is done, he regrips it again, to previous, usual position of hands.

I guess i have an issue not purely with the technique, but how fast its done, considering its a long friggin polearm, a back end of pole being a nuisance for that kind of reverse sweep, and needing to regrip the weapon twice.
It doesn’t suit pushattack position, a heavy attack - yes, because whilst charging the attack you’d have more animation timeframe for regripping and rotating the pole.

It’s too high damage for off targets (2+) for a backspike to do.

And also too little damage to 1st target for backspike to do, with that powerful animation.

Only sword like weapons, and big axes (big axeheads or on a long stick), have good sweep damage to 2+ targets, logic being that they still deliver cuts to 2+ target hit.

Blunt weapons, hammers, maces - they do good sweep damage to 1st target, and damage drops off rapidly after that, logic being that you either don’t hit 2+ targets directly (they stagger because first target flies into them), ot still hit them but with reduced force, reduced force reduces blunt weapon dmg potential more, than for sharp weaponry.

So there’s established ingame logic about weapon types and their damage profiles.

And if you really want a backspike attack of halberd be a multi-target one - then it should be similar to a blunt profile.
1st target great damage, 3rd+ greatly reduced or even 0 damage, like you’re not actually hitting them with a spike, but stagger by hitting them with an impaled body.

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I agree

ah perfect, problem solved then

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Ok, now I thought about new chain/combo.

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────

1st Light: Diagonal swing from up-right to down-left (Yes, it’s the current light attack 1)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────

2nd Light: Diagonal swing form down-left to up-right.

β€»Just pull the weapon up. So it can hit/strike with its back; the spike.

β€»Single-Target/Low-Cleave. Armour piercing.

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────

Optional* 3rd Light: Same as the 1st Light.

Optional* 4th Light: Stab/Thrust.

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────

1st Heavy: Stab/Thrust, but with dash/lunge.

You know, some melee weapons has it. Dash/Lunge to your moving direction. No dash/lunge when you are not moving.

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────

2nd Heavy: I don’t have a new Idea for it. So, just stay same as now(?)

I understand why you are invested in this topic. You put hours and effort in it, and believed you did a great job.

But many times bringing up stats of who liked/disliked the change, instead of focusing on the argument at hand, shows that you really want to protect your idea that you did a great job.

The rule of majority means nothing to me, an idea that if majority thinks its good, then it must be good and i should like it too, or be silent - is bs.

I also dislike how you dismiss my arguments saying: β€œthats just your opinion, man”, but when the opinions are on your side - you bring them forth as proof.

Look I’ve been nothing but cordial but

Don’t start this with me when you brought up your own personal interpretation of Fatshark’s philosophy as an argument despite it clearly either being
A. defunct
B. incorrect

I haven’t dismissed arguments, what I have DISMISSED is this idea that your own personal opinions around an individual weapon are grounded in objectivity. I even agreed that some animations weren’t clean, I’ve even agreed that there are solutions to the animations being made cleaner, I simply haven’t agreed that the combos themselves need changing.

Never told you to be silent but consider your problem with the current combo pattern of halberd is personal rather than objective or even an issue at all.

never brought opinions forth as objective proof of anything other than majority consensus; totally different to the way you’ve presented your own.

Just make the second heavy be diagonal swing from up-left to down-right

clearly it’d work fine for everyone without needing any major overhauling aside from that one animation, which already exists on billhook so shouldn’t be too resource intensive to sort out.

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You mean β€œheavy”, not β€œleft” right? I’m saying this because you quoted about the lights.

yea I mean heavy

could just have L1 stay the same is is currently, and then heavy 2 be up-left to down-right, similar to how billhook is but β€œacceptable” :^)

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the problem is though, is that halberd Heavy sweep is chained to Heavy stab, the transition back and forth between them must also be smooth. +more work for animators to figure it out.

Because after new Heavy sweep (up left to down right), at the end of it, the weapon is on the wrong side, compared to Heavy stab animation.

The original moveset design has all fluid animations - after both sweeps the weapon position lends itself for stab very natural.

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Yes, I think the Heavy that follows up after L1 should be a stab/thrust or reverse-swing/pulling-up.

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i’m thinking, that a new changed Heavy sweep, that would combo fluidly both to Light sweep, and Heavy stab, is this backspike attack:

a backspike attack, going from up-left, to down-right.

After Light 1 sweep, Heavy 2 sweep is going through the cross, literally the same as in video.

After Heavy 1 stab, you can easily get to new Heavy sweep position (weapon held high, backspike pointing down). And after this new Heavy sweep, you also can get easily to Heavy stab position.

But as i pointed out, a backspike strike should have a new different damage profile.

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Fight. Fight. FIGHT.
Haha. Sorry. It’s just kind of funny seeing how this has been building up. I don’t want to add to the tension. I think everyone wants a good solution.

I’d like to add some minor suggestions:

  • Slight cleave increase for heavy sweep. Let it cleave through Maulers specifically maybe?
  • Somewhat better mobility with light stab than overhead. Would help compensate for the lower stagger.

It would be kind of cool to see the heavy stab - light stab be a good kiting chain against elites.

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Do you believe in Khorne and Tzeentch?

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I’m partial to Myrmidia. Just trying to make light of the conversation above in the hope that it doesn’t get too heated.

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Myrmidia gang :sun_with_face:

my last word on the matter is this: I put in a solid amount of work on the spear and shield too, but I’m far farrr less defensive over that when it comes to negative feedback because it isn’t from essentially 1 source and 1 argument

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Oh god no, feelsbad :’

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typical mistake of a creator - instead of listening to this one feedback and trying your hardest to understand the merits of this person’s argument, you dismiss it because its rare, an exception, and spoils a perfect picture.

ok now you’re just being arrogant

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Please, let’s not fight unless your an orc or gobbo

And now, let’s go back to pole-arms in our game.

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