I am a toxic player. No score screen will make things worse

well they never said the scoreboard is gone, they acknowledged problems with it and investigate if a compromise is possible. that was their stance from the very beginning.

the fact that the beta didn’t have one was either due to it simply not implemented or them not yet on terms how this compromise could look like.

i rather had a personal stat window i can Access in the hub rather than a scoreboard but i don’t really care either way.

be careful the scoreboard hardliners will twist your words and assume you meant verbal abuse and not bad habits or else they gonna throw a tantrum at you too <.<

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catch it

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That is really good info Hedge that scoreboard is on table (in revised version). It’s important to have tool and you can’t blame tool for bad people behaviour. Chat, voice chat, scoreboard, co-op games, forum etc. are all tools that are used by majority of players to have fun, improve game, draw conclusions etc. and only by very small % to cause harm (like hammer, knifes, axes in real life etc.) but it’s not tools fault, but peoples.

If I may suggest something as sort of safety measurement: why not disable Chat+voice chat when scoreboard shows up? So there is end of the map, there is cinematic of us flying away (plenty of time to say “gg” etc.) and then when scoreboard shows the ingame Chat+Voice chat is disabled so there is no chance for any griefing or harassing etc. Everyone see scoreboard, takes what they want from it and move on.

Commentary on scorecards isn’t often a problem, it’s the desire to score in ways that aren’t cooperative (yet were on the scorecards) that were problematic.

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Yes. If there is a situation that triggers you, remove yourself from that situation. No matter what it is, you are responsible for your actions, you need to recognize what “sets you off” and avoid it.

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Hey thanks for your views and openness about your experience. I was glad to read your posts.

Honestly, it sounds like scoreboards are a more minor issue, and what instead needs to be worked on, is player harassment detection and deterrence. To abuse players for being bad at a videogame sounds like something that needs to be detected, logged, and then a suitable deterrence put into effect, with the deterrence escalating as the number of infractions against the account increases.

@Fatshark_Hedge

I’m sorry, what? This player is admitting with his whole chest that he knowingly abuses other players - at least one to the point of sobbing on mic - and he says he will continue doing this, and your response is to… assure him that FatShark are looking into reviewing the scoreboard?

He didn’t even say that a scoreboard would stop him being toxic and abusive, just that it might help reduce it.

I feel like I’m going crazy here. How does this not warrant banning him?

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I don’t disagree, but this is probably why we don’t hear from Hedge very often on topics. lol You can’t win with the Tide community. You could argue most communities have entitled players in them, but there are some weirdly aggressive people attracted to the Tides as compared to some other online coop games.

Yeah gotta agree with inquisitorvawn here, not so much on the ban, or on Rashun specifically, but just the general approach to abusive behaviour that occurs in the game. I imagine that automated “abuse” detection is probably quite difficult through text, and even more so through voice chat, but I feel further developments in that area could be a good idea, I don’t think anyone should be abused for playing poorly, as it could be the case they’ve just come home from a long days work, and just want to relax, and play quite casually.

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so to recap:

we got a user who cyberbullies people, admits its a miracle they havent gotten banned, but the actual issue here is the scoreboard and not the fact this person should be on a blacklist of some sort?

and you’re rewarding this type of behavior.

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You totally missed the point. The point is that scoreboard has nothing to do with harrasment. He admited he will be toxic becasue he is toxic person (and that is bad) regardless of scoreboard. The point is: removing scoreboard won’t reduce toxicity as toxicity has source in player. They will always find excuses, griefing opportunities, ways etc. to flame and hate other players. So removing scoreboard only hurts normal (vast majority of players) that just want to look at their statistic, see how they did, take info from it and improve etc. In short: using scoreboard as it should be used. Scoreboard won’t make him (and other toxic players) more or less toxic as that is not the source of it.

The person should be absolutely condem with this kind of behaviour. However, I agree with the point: removing scoreboard has nothing to do with toxicty, it only removes a useful tool from 98% of us, normal players becasue somehow developers concluded that 2% of players are toxic becasue of it. While reality is: they are toxic becasue they are toxic. That’s it.

Don’t blame the tool. Sure, some guy bought hammer at local hardware store and smacked someone with it. That doesn’t mean we should ban hammers! Becasue 99,99% of society uses hammer as it should be, as useful tool. Same is with scoreboard.

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eipugIu

I take it you haven’t noticed the various scoreboard threads around and how many people there seem to be on the pro scoreboard side? (no the forum isn’t a perfect sample but it’s still indicative).

I think they’re responding to the large bulk of people decrying the complete absence of a scoreboard, and felt this was a reasonable place to voice where they’re at with it.

Very very odd to suggest FS would reimplement a scoreboard because of this one post. I don’t particularly want to go back into the incredibly tiresome argument of how useful or not a scoreboard actually is, but very clearly there are a lot of people who miss it, if these forums are anything to go by there’s at minimum as many if not significantly more than were happy to see it gone in the beta.

I think what Vasilas is pointing out is that despite all those other threads, all those other players discussing the scoreboard elsewhere, it’s this particular thread that gets the official reply.

At initial read through it does seem like someone threatened to be even more toxic without a scoreboard and was rewarded for it with additional information. The point that toxicity can still happen without scoreboard is definitely a point, but the response does feel like it was trying to placate or appease toxic behaviour.

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I very much see that as a final straw after the spam of scoreboard threads more so than what you both seem to be reading into this.

OP’s post does not read to me like a threat whatsoever, and Hedge’s response doesn’t seem like placation whatsoever even if I did buy that OP’s original comment was a threat.

I think sincerity was responded to with sincerity, and I’m happy to have the info that they are seriously considering how to tackle a scoreboard. Would I have preferred a more official statement put out as part of a proper announcement? Sure, but after, lord probably over a decade?! of familiarity with Fatshark, ad-hoc communication is very much the norm, especially when a specific issue starts dominating feedback like the scoreboard argument has been doing here on these forums.

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It really shouldn’t matter how useful it is.
It’s just a table with numbers.
It’s as useful as you want it to be.
That whole discussion how useful it is really goes absolutely nowhere except strawman-city.

The skins in the game aren’t particularly useful.
Why not remove them all?

I appreciate you’re clearly quite passionate about this, but there are enough threads arguing the scoreboard’s value. This one is rather specific, and while I appreciate my own response is straying somewhat, at least that conversation is about Hedge’s comment in this thread. Let’s keep things relatively on topic and not stray into the exact same argument that’s already happening in those other scoreboard threads yeah?

The scoreboard is an issue that has been rehashed everywhere - here, reddit, twitter, steam - a thousand times. I have no dog in this fight. I don’t like the way the scoreboard fuels green circle chasing in VT2, but I agree people like comparing their own performance and would like to have one, so I see why they feel like it would be good.

Despite the OP’s attempt to make this thread about the scoreboard, the glaring issue here is a player trying to blame his abuse of other players on whether or not he gets a screen to tell him who to blame - not just if the run fails (which still wouldn’t be a reason to abuse anyone, regardless), but by his own admission if HE THINKS they didn’t play “well enough” by whatever metric is fuelling his brain worms.

OP has essentially said “I need a scoreboard so I can focus my ire and abuse on who i think is the deserving target. If i don’t have that, then I’ll throw it at everyone around me”

This is why I’m flabbergasted that @Fatshark_Hedge even responded about the scoreboard. This player is admitting he abuses other players. The game isn’t even out yet. Ban him, refund his money, and he can take that money to continue his therapy sessions until he learns not to abuse people, let alone abuse them over a game.

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Why am I the badguy for posting some funny posts in a thread that has long lost its purpose? XP
I can stay on topic if I want to.

Preventing toxicity is almost impossible.
As long as there are ways left to interact with other players there’s always something you can do.
The easiest one that will most likely always be available is the chat and direct communication to other players, just like OP says.
For some people, the more work you put into preventing it, the more it becomes a challenge to find the spots where it’s possible.
Even if you remove the chat and voice chat you can still just shoot people.
Preventing toxicity is a lost cause … or you make the most boring game ever.

Granted the point of view in this thread is weird.
But I agree on the basic premise.
Removing the scoreboard might prevent a few people from playing recklessly and selfish ( even though I have my doubts, that’s just their playstyle ).
But there is a chance that the people who see all the green circles under their name calm down from it and don’t lash out at others so often.

Basically it allows you to say “I’m the best” instead of “you are all worthless”.
Makes sense?