Huntsman is in a weird place rn

Currently, I think it serves little purpose.
Keep it Coming is a more notable DPS boost and conserves ammunition

However, baked in Makin’ it look easy “Ranged headshots grant a guaranteed ranged critical hit.” would be an indirect buff to Make 'Em Bleed and open up reliable crit breakpoints for Handgun.

My take on Handgun is it doesn’t need headshots to do well, incentivizing them is the way to go.
There’s many ways they could do that, guaranteed crits being one of them; it opens up other synergies.


@Radina.Shevu It’s identical to Witch-Hunt/Open Wounds.

Damage is applied to the hit that triggers it, applies for the entire team.
Lasts 15 seconds and doesn’t stack with Witch-Hunt, Off Balance or Open wounds.

understandable :eyes:
It’s uhhhhh not great

Not fond of Make 'Em Bleed becoming redundant with a WHC in the group either.
If it had another effect like crits ignoring shields or piercing an additional enemy, then I could really get behind it.

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Manbow being his signature weapon and arguably filling its role worse than Handgun is also pretty bad imo. I would love to see it buffed / reworked to once again be a primary for most people. Personally I think it its current form it outperform handgun, mostly just due to shot speed and less ammo reliability but the skill requirement for that to be the case is prolly a bit too high.

The Headshot passive we talked about would help the Bow as much as the other weapons. You suddenly could run Hunter and bellykill specials with your stored crit stack.

That doesn’t change the clunky nature of the Manbow, but it is going to hurt much less if you cant hit heads 24/7.

I think the bow itself needs changes, any blanket stuff would probably keep it in the same abysmal competitive state its already in.

Since inspiratuonal Shot is a dead trait maybe it could be given to huntsman as a passive?

then Huntsman would just have a dead passive

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What kind of bow changes?

I’m not entirely sure where changes are needed (Everybody wants something different)

Whether that be accuracy, zoom, cleave, damage, speed/more fluidity between charges etc

But then huntsman could at least annoy his teammates with constant headshotting like exesword can :smiley:
Maybe it could be changed to a more useful state if it buffed teams stam reg by 30% over 10 sec?

that’d be better than the current version of inspirational for sure

that should honestly just be regular Inspirational Shot

Really think bow doesn’t need drastic changes. Like if we ever get an overhaul to his talents then we may not even need a buff to bow since the only class it was meant to be on is strong.

The way it interacts with his ult seems purposeful, and I hate his ult. Guess I need to test things to see what the DPS on it really is compared to others, but being able to get off one big shot and then spend the rest of his ult dumping quick shots seems an intended way to use it?

I believe so. I like to ult just as I fire a fully charged arrow and then use quick shots (2 quick arrows takes 1.2s, 1 full charge takes 1.42 according to Vermintools). Its dps is good.

The partial charge could receive a small damage buff because it does less damage than the quick arrow to superarmour. During Prowl, it does less to superarmour and berserkers, only doing more to regular armour. It also does more to infantry and monsters on bodyshot during Prowl but less on headshot. It’s useful for out of ult breakpoints but I find it simply unintuitive that it can do less damage than the quick arrow. It should do slightly more and act as a proper in-between charge level imo.


Some Talent Talk

  • What needs to be done with Longshanks? It doesn’t compete with the other two on that row. A mobility talent could be useful on Huntsmen. Should it have an additional effect like 10% dodge range, or should it be made into a higher % conditional movement speed talent?
  • Is Head Down and Hidden a bit weak? How would anyone feel about the first shot with this talent being a guaranteed ranged crit?
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More move speed would break it. Right now you can take the extra 5% movement on trinket with longshanks and haul butt through a map. Take a weapon with a speed boost in its attacks and you’re actually out running enemies/catching up to that one guy who never turns around to help you fight hordes, so I think any speed greater than 15% should only be possible with speed pot.

Everyone likes dodge range, super easy sell. I love the previous suggestion of Vermintide 1’s Skirmisher trait as a talent.

Very much, so. A single guaranteed critical hit doesn’t sound offensive either.

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This isn’t an issue provided the movement speed is conditional and not passive, like how Fervent Huntress is on Waystalker (that’s a bad talent but the core idea is functional).

Outrunning enemies would realistically only be possible with Mace and Sword with at least 10% attack speed (if running away from enemies, Swift Slaying uptime is going to be poor) and would be limited by stamina as well. The player would likely get hit by running attacks and struggle to disengage with Kruber’s generally low dodge ranges.

You can view move techs and speed values needed to outrun enemies in this spreadsheet: Vermintide2 Comprehensive Speedbook v3.1 - Google Sheets

Most of Kruber’s weapons don’t have great move speed boosts until 30% attack speed. In the hands of a human performing L1 > Block Cancel, they would need at least 30% attack speed to reach 35% movement speed and would still not outrun Savages or Plague Monks.

3 Likes

A skirmisher/targeteer talent would probably be more impactful/useful.

It is currently the weakest on the row but not bad.
I was thinking something like 50% increased ranged attack speed for the Repeater/manbow memes.

There’s other ideas like drastically reducing the cooldown but only granting 1 very powerful shot. Shifting it into a low cooldown, one and done kind of ult; players might enjoy it and feel more engaged.

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HS does have the problem that many of the talents’ bonuses are conditional and the bonus not always measures up to the difficulty of fullfilling said condition. His unconditional bonuses are mediocre and don’t make for a really compelling kit.

His overall headshot/crit shtick is a solid basis for building upon. I’d say a good solution would be to make talents provide a small unconditional permanent bonus as well as an additional bonus when conditions are met, or to open up the conditions a little bit other than “score a headshot”.

Some suggestions:

10 row:
“Keep it Coming”: The bonus is okay, but a rather crude way to give HS ammo sustain. I essence, his ammo cap increases by 33% without the boon of increasing Scrounger ammo regain and you have to hit your mark.
Suggested change: “Keep it coming: Increases max ammo by 25%. Ranged headshots and critical hits refund their ammo” Would give him a smaller permanent boost and cater both towards skillful play (headshots) as well as his high crit chance for weapons that are less accurate, while giving people who have trouble head hunting a reason to pick this talent.

“Make em bleed”: Solid pick, but needs to be balanced towards similar talents from other carreers. Boosts his melee, caters towards his crit chance and his overall role as a buff/debuff carreer. However, considering WHC has access to flense and WS to ranged bleed, MAYBE consider adding something that fits the description of the talent:
Suggestion
“Make em bleed: Critical hits cause enemies to take 20% increased damage and also make them bleed for extra damage.” Tying it to crits makes it not as strong as WHC’s flense or WS’s ranged bleed, but would give it more profile as a debuffer. It’s not a guaranteed bleed like WHC or WS, but it applies to both melee and ranged and it debuffs for everyone. It makes sense, lore-wise, to put this on kruber: Kruber isn’t as precise in his melee strikes for vital organs like WHC or shots like WS, but he is a strong toughguy that just slams everything with force, and if by chance he hits a vulnerable spot in his enemy’s anatomy, they are in trouble.

One in the eye: Solid pick, but benefits melee more than ranged. Also less effective than on WHC due to WHC already having a passive headshot damage bonus, something that Kruber does not have. Overkill on most ranged weapons that are good for headhunting (handgun, manbow), unreliable on BB and repeater. Also has a tough time prevailing against “Make 'em bleed” already as it is.

Suggestion:
Increases headshot damage and ranged stagger by 50%.

20 row:

Thrill of the hunt: A pretty underwhelming bonus that is pretty much only worth it for handgung. Has no effect on manbow, unreliable for repeater and bb and not really all that necessary. Lets you pump out more damage with Hunter’s Prowl, but outside of it, it’s conditional and not very good imho. Would be nice if it would work with manbow.

Suggestion:

Thrill of the hunt: Increases reload speed and weapon handling speed (weapon switching, bow draw speed, handgun ADS, repeater spin up, BB-butt-stroke) by 10. Landing a ranged headshot or critical strike increases this bonus by 10% for 10 seconds.

Making it look easy: Easily one of his best talents.

Burst of Enthusiasm: I think it is an interesting concept, but the bonus is… small-ish. Slight increase and more utility by making it a support ability would give it more definition.

Suggestion:
Scoring a ranged headshot or critical strike grants 4 temporary health to the allies. Critical headshots double the effect

25 row

Shotcrafter: Good talent.

Thick Hide: Imho a lesser version of BH’s “A job well done” and OE’s “Ablative Armour”. Doesn’t go away on death like BH’s version and only needs 4 kills to achieve maximum, which is 10% higher, but it’s condition isn’t as easily met as OE’s talent, doesn’t stack as high, may fall a little flat during Lord encounters and it kinda forces you into a competition with your teammates. A little vulnerable to kill stealing teammates. HS used to get DR from killing monsters, which could be integrated back into this talent to make it indeed somewhere between BH and OE’s talent.

Suggestion:
Big Game Hunter: Killing a Special or Elite enemy reduces damage taken by 10%. Stacks 4 times. Taking a hit removes one stack. After killing a monster, gain 15% damage reduction. Resets if you are killed.

Longshanks: Movement speed is… I don’t know. 10% is alot, but it’s not THAT useful as a defensive option, and considering you are still slowed down by your carreer skill, you are still limited in your movement. Should be turned into a “true” defensive option.

Longshanks: Increases movement speed and dodge distance by 10. You are no longer slowed down by enemy attacks.

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Honestly one of Huntsman’s best talents.
A hidden ammunition increase of 40 - 50% and completely negates a reload every 3rd shot.
It doesn’t really need a buff or any changes, if anything this seems like a nerf.

Tossed around the idea of buffing it to 75% to match WHC and open up more breakpoints.
It could be completely unnecessary.
Best in slot for manbow, opens up a 2 shot CW breakpoint, quick arrow & medium arrow breakpoints and a few during Hunter’s Prowl.


Other talents mentioned can be tweaked/improved in other ways.

Fair point, something I left out of my considerations. Also, the ammo increase can be higher if you hit every single shot. Still, I find it too much of a quirky way to increase his ammo sustain.

It benefits manbow and handgun the most, definitely, but his overall kits is designed around these two weapons to begin with. I think the point is that his overall headshot-shtick means that his skill ceiling is rather high, while the reward is not always appropriate.

Of course they could. I’d be glad to hear what you’d have in mind.

yeah kinda quirky but It’s great talent that doesn’t revolve around headshots
works great with blunderbuss, repeater and handgun


Just making Thrill of the Hunt proc on crits would help accessibility
If they really wanted to buff it, they could double it on critical headshots
pair that with other suggestions and it translates into 2 consecutive headshots grants 40% reload speed.

Suggested burst of enthusiasm change would honestly be too good
4thp on hs/crits to the entire party is strong, 8thp even more so.

2thp, doubled on crit headshots would be more reasonable for the entire team or making it green health just for Huntsman. Passive Makin’ it look easy would be a big indirect buff too.


Thick Hide just needs a small buffer window to prevent tick damage eating through all 4 stacks.

Longshanks turned into V1 Skirmisher/targeteer hybrid
(Spread no longer increases while moving, no movement slowdown while aiming, firing etc and maybe a flat spread reduction so it works with blunderbuss too)
Would make Huntsman’s ranged options feel far more mobile and improve his headshot synergy.

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