Seldom happens to me.
The Throwing Knife wouldn’t change much.
I admitted nothing.
You just interpreted into my posts, what you like to see.
I can take the Flamer, without taking the Throwing Knife.
I’m not worried.
If you had read my posts and understood what I was actually saying,
you would know that I just said that SOME builds require the speed the Zealot has right now.
Others don’t.
I run multiple different builds.
I’m pretty skillfull and you have no base to judge my skill.
If you want to discuss something, why don’t you make a point instead of veiled insults?
What’s that? The knife stealth loner Zealot?
This shows that you have no idea what you’re talking about and you don’t even realize how much of a crutch Zealot is. (And VoC on Vet)
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If you consider that zealot is the strongest class, it shows also how you’re blind in your reasonning.
Actually the class that can deal damages that are an anomaly, this is the psyker: a skilled psyker that use the right talents. Sorry I don’t really like this class, so I don’t know what need a nerf, but sure NO class need a nerf as a class, even the psykers.
I see your post as someone that don’t play zealot and are just jealous and try to list everything he would want to be nuked.
But Veteran is not more balanced. VoC, close order drill, demolition stock pile and the damages bonus for elite and ogryns… all these things make the veteran very strong.
No seriously, this thread is ridiculous. The first post is already a non sense. Look this title…
There are surely things to balance. But starting the discussion with:
By who? the author.
In fact, there are several talents in all classes that are very good. But the main problems are about the weapons…
Of course several things could be tweaked…
But a total tree rework? no thank. Enough lost time at deconstructing and rebuilding the already existing feature in the game.
Sure there are lot of voice lines and that it would requires work to create a 5th archetype. However, if we rework constantly what is existing in game, sure it will never happen…
And then, if we ask perpetual rework, we have to take that in consideration because this means that WE ask a SLOW developement.
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Zealot is the strongest class in the game, bar none.
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Personally no, It usually what I’ve been mostly told when i try to make adjustments (its also a really good way to get people riled up and invested, like nerf zealot title), but i wouldn’t consider psyker peak either… each class has a niche so hard to compare.
For survivability yes Zealot, best DRs, Until death safety net even a dog safety net if that’s your issue.
Pskyer or Veteran probably best damage or even gun ogryn depending on ammo and who wants to range pew pew hardest.
Game usually comes down to what kills group not so much who does best damage so long as your able to do decent damage.
Reworks and number adjustments i think would be easier than major content especially in consistent small doses. Shacking up gameplay that encourages players to refine, adapt and possibly enjoy new styles of playing same ol game.
You’re entirely wrong. I’ve played all classes and did all class penances.
I also did the survivor penances on Zealot specifically. I think you can figure out why.
Here I agree… but why? cause the zealot takes damages. That’s inevitably especially cause… this is a melee combattant.
An other class has everything to survive in mlee, and even more than zealot. This is the Ogryn and his capacity to recover easily toughness…
Psyker, there is something broken (and I don’t know what as I don’t play it enough).
Veteran Ogrun ammunitions?? lol. You just need to open chests. There are ammos everywhere, except in havoc but here you need to adapt.
Well, maybe you’re happy to only see reworks, I want news things. I want balance, but not a total rework. Especially cause zealot talent tree is the best actually.
Psyker has keystones I don’t like (center and right). Veteran, no keystone good, and I am not alone to think that considering how many veteran don’t pick a keystone. Ogryn, well there’s adjustments pending.
The problem is when you see that psyker can deal 20-40% more damages than you even when using very strong weapons.
For me, having the power to kill 1/3 more enemies at least, is not balanced. However, I suspect soulblaze, however I won’t call for a psyker nerf about this. That’s a non sense, especially when I don’t know enough the class and I am not even sure it is the problem.
I also play all classes… But I play zealot as main… And I don’t really play enough psyker to know it enough to ask for specific nerf on it.
Implementing changes listed in first post is nuking the zealot. Then you need to nuke all other classes… And when I say nuke, I mean really nuke them to the ground.
Out of 4148 levels, 2590 of them are on zealot.
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Oh that hurts my head ><
Ok I recovered, nerfs have a long list of buffs to balance out but most importantly restructure of tree to have less funnels and more open spaces similar to psyker and new ogryn tree. Even doing this now would open up more OPness but also makes for boring tree decisions same issue ogryn has hes effective at what he does but pretty boring to play once you mastered it.
I’d suggest its easier for a melee class to survive in game because they are melee with all their DR, invulnerability CD, and less constricted to the range blinders and trap, easily melee surrounded and downed when not careful with your glass cannon.
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In a moment i will explain my thought process about why 1) zealot is the best class and 2) why the tree is so bad.
If you don’t understand Zealot is broken OP then I am sorry to inform you you’re using the class as a crutch.
Also the Relic Blade - Bolter - Stealth - Loner- Zealot.
Or the Dueling Sword - Braced Autogun/Recon Lasgun - Stealth - Loner Zealot.
Or the weapons of your choice Stealth - Loner - Zealot.
Also possible: Stealth Zealot without Loner.
There are so many options.
Personally I don’t like the Knife.
But that’s just ME, again.
The Stealth-(with or without Loner)-Zealot can be a great support for the team.
The mistake lies not with the build, but with the players.
My guess you have a hate-boner for Stealth & Loner
& that’s why you can’t argue in good faith.
Or you just don’t know how good one can be with the Vet and Psyker.
Even with the Ogryn.
You make no viable argument.
Just make brought statements and act all high & mighty while you do it.
Seriously, your personal tone makes me not even want to reply to you anymore.
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Is there a block function in this forum?
Asking for a friend… 
Frankly, Veteran has the worst talent tree cause of keystones.
Psyker, disrupt destiny is something I hate cause it does not make sense to play a rabbit hunt. The middle one is blitz focused and so I feel it very restrictive (however good to clear penances).
Both on these tree, keystones are pretty bad. For veteran, none are simply acceptable, and for psyker only one is good. Sure that’s my vision, that can be totally wrong on psyker… but not veteran that was a class that I played a lot (and a lot less since keystones).
But, when I compare these two talent trees to zealot, as I see all the bottom extremely restricted on psyker and veteran… zealot appears really balanced for me.
I see lot of builds using all 3 keystones… at contrary of the 2 classes I quoted just before. Problem is mainly CDR, IoD is too strong and push to critical builds and martyr’s purpose is not a viable option to allow to go for something NOT critical. And the middle part of the tree is not enough interesting as I explained before… but of course you can create very different builds. However the CDR problem means that any efficient build relies around critical hits or backstab (very restrictive number of builds for the backstab part).
Remain the Ogryn. Well let’s say that I have always considered the Ogryn one not bad. And the next patch could make it a little better.
So changes on the zealot tree? yes, cause everything has to be balanced. A total rework, no.
Last time someone proposed a rework it was for veteran… I have seen one motion the tax node… before it was the great idea of the keystones. The worst thing that happened for veteran (since that I play veteran a lot less and even if I really tried to play it seriously).
So, sorry if I am not enthusiast when you speak about destroying everything of what is zealot.
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Those all seem like keystone or ability issues rather than tree structure, but yes these posts are attempts to flesh out bad class destroying ideas before we or Fatshark pulls another trigger and blindside us like Ogryn rework.
Psyker maybe next because more niche player pool and less aggro… but Zealot has the smallest total talent selection, restrictive tree and probably the most commonly selected talents… so i think after the easy ogryn rework zealot is next.
On Zealot I run 4 builds, the core of them is identical.
Path down through scourge, taking second wind, enduring faith, blades of faith and thy wrath be swift.
- Second Wind alone is the single strongest toughness regen passive in the game
- Scourge allows enduring faith to have an almost 100% uptime in aurics and high havocs, giving you at base, 50% toughness damage reduction.
- Thy Wrath Be Swift removes all stun from the game.
- You can, and on one build I do, also take Good Balance, for a 25% extra total damage resistance, not just TDR.
I then path left through to take duelist and until death.
- Duelist is a flat 15% minimum damage throughout the entire game, this of course dramatically scales finesse stat weapons beyond reason, especially knife and dueling sword
- Until Death, quite frankly, is the single strongest passive in the entire game, it allows a good player to survive all but disablers.
From HR, I path to one of two keystones, IJ and Piety.
- Piety comes with invocation of death, which means you will always have fury of the faithful back within 15 seconds, halfing your ultimate cooldown for free.
- Piety also comes with the sub-node Stalwart, which gives you 25% TDR when Piety is active, which is always, it, in addition gives 2% extra toughness on melee kill.
- Blazing Piety has a niche interaction with the Flamer blessing, Everlasting Flame, which gives the flamer 100% uptime on Blaze Away, a free 50% damage boost.
You are able to take multiple CDR sources, which dramatically boost the uptime on all three ultimates. This is fundamentally overpowered.
The tree is poorly designed because all of the good stuff is together and there is really only 4 variations of the same core build available from a meta perspective.
I did not include how poorly stealth is designed, and from a meta perspective, insanely overpowered, or how Relic is insane in how it works, given that you can stack cdr on it. Nor did i cover how the Relic Blade, Crusher or Flamer are insanely overpowered.
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Big part why most zealot builds go this exact path is because basically most of the other skills are just bad or otherwise not worth taking because they are so out of the way. Like stun grenades and fire nades are decent and do their job well. But the biggest problem with them is that the skills preceding them are just bad and you are actively gimping yourself by picking them.
Like say you want stun grenades? Well you are forced to go through Disdain, which is bad. And then after that Enemy Within, Enemy Without. Which is plain inferior and worse when compared to Second Wind. It needs a massive buff to be worth consider taking over Second Wind.
Same for many other skills. Like the ones above Beacon of Purity, most of them are just mediocre or plain bad.
Also zealot largely has only 1 good aura and it is benediction and all builds want it. Reasons being that Loner and BoP suck. Loner isn’t an aura and Beacon of Purity is largely useless, because better you are at the game less you need it. And you only use BoP in Havoc to counter the one floor vomit modifier. Which is gonna be gone and replaced by other modifiers, so BoP is losing even that niche.
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If you don’t have imagination that not my fault
Just 3 builds:
I had inexorable judgment builds. But I deleted all my builds and now I try to find what I like the most as gameplay with each of the 3 keystones.
But sure, shroudfield and chorus I don’t like. Chorus is for havoc, when I play this thing… Grenades, knives are really better for the fast gameplay I like.
Beacon of purity, again havoc.
Loner… I have a loner build when I am tired to meet players that rush… then here I pick this build. As with this build, you can ignore your entire team and are not forced to run after rabbits.
Nota: I don’t use the first cause too OP.
And I have not published my martyr achlys combat axe build also…
So you don’t even understand the loner talent if you think it brings value to the team.
Thanks for confirming my suspicions.