How to improve the loot and farming system

The loot system in the game has never convinced me. Here you have what I have been thinking:

  • Completely eliminate the end of map chests.

  • Add an object drop to mini bosses, patrols and final bosses. Only 1 object for mini bosses and patrols, 2 for final bosses, this object will be more probability to be better depending on the difficulty.

  • The books, dice, ranald and quick play bonus will add a luck multiplier to these objects, increasing the probabilities that they´re better.

  • An additional bonus will be added to complete the map. Also the Deeds will add special bonus according to the difficulty of it.

  • Cosmetics and illusions benefit from these bonuses and may appear from the veteran difficulty. In addition to being able to get them in events and achievements in any difficulty.

  • Add a withdrawal option in different points of the map. For example, when we get to X point of each map, have the option to take a secondary/secret road that simply allows us to escape back to the castle. In this way we can enter and clean the area we want, or also escape if the thing gets complicated and not lose everything.

Now I put the practical example: the team enters a map, get a dice, kill a mini boss and a patrol, but during a horde all die less 1 hero, and he decides to run away by one of the ways of withdrawal. This hero have tome and grim.
With this they get x2 objects each, plus the bonus for the dice, the tome and the grim.

What do you think about the idea? :rat: (and sorry if I make a mistake in writing)

1 Like

I can see so many problems with that.

Starting from the most obvious one, changing something that fundamentally is a huge amount of work, not guaranteed to work and likely to invite backlash from the players, at least before they get used to the new system. There is no reason whatsoever to trash the system we have now, it’s not that broken.

Next, introducing the escape points would defeat just about any purpose loss or completing the map has. There is already a tendency for some people to speedrun through the maps for loot; this would make that worse, as the optimal strategy would likely be “encounter a Patrol or a Boss, clear it, escape”. There is also the story side: Why would we get a reward when we didn’t succeed in the mission we were sent to do? The chests we get isn’t loot from the enemies, it’s a reward for a job well done.

Third point: An item for each Boss or Patrol slain would be way too valuable. Certain Careers can delete a Boss even alone in under half a minute; less than a minute is standard for any experienced group in the middle of full action. Patrols are even more so: It’s already debatable whether killing Rat patrols is just easier and faster in vast majority of cases, and even Chaos patrols can be pretty easily dealt with when you get to set the conditions. Also, the patrols were originally designed to be avoided instead of fought, we don’t need any encouragement to fight them.

And last: Twitch mode would break this, even more that it does the current system. The sheer amount of Bosses it can drop, especially when tweaked to hyper mode, brings in enough dice to ignore at least half the books already - imagine what it would be when each of those would be an item instead.

So I don’t think this would be any kind of improvement, but a downright worse option. What we could use for the system is some bad luck protection and a few QoL changes, not a complete rework.

5 Likes

I see only one problem, FS don’t care about loot system being rewarding, they just want players to grind for an eternity. Well, in the end FS don’t give a fuсk about mine/yours/another random player’s opinion, and that’s why such suggestions are just another waste of time.

1 Like

Now let me defend myself:

  • Why do you think that a change in the loot system wouldn´t be well accepted? Many people are asking for an improvement. Currently you can play Deed, just let you kill, and Sienna or Kerillian run forward until you reach the end and collect your reward, isn´t appropriate.

  • The escape points would be a way to reward players who only want to find weapons, illusions and cosmetics. We have already played the same maps 1 million times, it´s not fair that for one failure you lose everything you have in the game.

  • Reward players for kill enemies such as patrols or bosses, we would do for example think tactics to kill them, more cooperation. It´s very fun to find different ways to play the same map.

  • Using the twitch mode we would simply put a maximum of objects per game, 4 - 5, in this way if you decide to continue playing your loot is in danger and at the same time make people want to use this type of gamemode more.

Because every big change will generate backlash. If the change is ultimately good, the furor will die out; if it isn’t, people will leave the game. Yes, people are asking for improvements, and as I explained, for multiple reasons I don’t see your suggestion as such.

The escape points would be disruptive for Quickplay, as using them requires consent from everyone and with a random group that would be hard to find out (before making the trip there), let alone coordinate. The same kinds of trolling and griefing problems that already happen would likely be more prevalent as people (particularly the host) would want to finish the run with little loot and the rest just want to play.

As I said, patrols are meant to be avoided, which is sad as at least Stormvermin aren’t a real threat to a moderately experienced player. Bosses come up when they do, and as thing are, cannot be avoided completely - and drop a die for every one. No reason for incentivizing killing either one any more - if anything, patrols would need some more danger to them to make avoiding them a good option.

Limiting Twitch mode’s loot that way would certainly make the most effective way of gathering loot Twitch mode, hitting the max amount of Bosses, and leaving asap, encouraging leaving in the middle of a run. As I said before, I don’t think getting loot, especially anything significant, for failing the mission you’ve been given makes any sense.

The gripes most people have with the current system are: The amount of sheer trash you get after getting a collection of Veteran items and good Exotics; the time it takes to collect everything, both at the game end screen and opening the chests; annoying and time-wasting craft system; and the lack of any kind of bad luck protection, meaning that you’re never guaranteed the loot you want, and can at worst spend hundreds of hours without seeing a single red, let alone one you want. Your suggestion addresses none of these.

And again, a huge rework like this is a huge amount of work that could be spent better elsewhere. There are also reason for the devs to have chosen the current method of loot acquisition, and I doubt they’re willing to change it completely.

I don’t know whether it’s the majority or not, but a lot of the current players, especially the long-time veterans, don’t play the game for the loot (even if it keeps being an extra incentive for some). There are even players who have hundreds of chests sitting there, because opening them is such a chore without significant rewards. To me and many others, the gameplay, especially with friends, is the primary motivation; loot is a bonus.

2 Likes

It’s not that broken in that it meets the functional criteria for being a loot system, but it is frustrating as all hell and is apparently a sore point for a lot of people.

Personally, I think an RNG-based loot/crafting system takes a lot of power away from the player, and with this game being one where a player’s ability is more important than the gear they’re carrying, that’s not a good fit.

This is a very important thing to note! I have almost all red illusions, multiples of all red weapons and I think I only lack… 3 or 4 cosmetic items from commendation chests. Loot has become more or less irrelevant for me and I am sure alot of players with a certain playtime share this sentiment.

After we got red weapon crafting (with terrible conversion rate, it must be said) I think red duplicate protection is something we should get. It would help completionists while still allowing to craft the 10th copy of an item if we really want it.

At least, dup protection on the illusions would be a very simple fix that would make everybody a bit happier.

I also have more than 100 unopened chests and an infinite number of powders to create objects.

@SrRaulCL @Yzneftamz

You can read about me calling for some higher difficulty.
In V1 you actually got a bit of crafting material for loosing a game.
I think it wouldn’t be a bad thing if you were rewarded with one random item if you wipe depending on your progress and difficulty of that match (like xp). This will be especially great once I get the difficulty I crave for as the difficulty I want will even make me wipe at least 25% of the time.

Question is: how long will that last? ^^

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