I was talking about the progression and you can see it in my post.
The majority is not satisfied of the lack of real crafting system, and also the random weapons offered in the shops.
I do not want a system where you have limitations just to simulate a progression. In this game the progression is in skills you develop.
About Merkshop, 340+ is enough good, especially if you add tier 3+ blessings. If you put 380 with the best blessings, there is no reason to play.
About contract system, I suggest something to fix what is really annoying with the minimal work. Letâs be realistic⌠they have not, in 3 months, given the crafting system and people dream about remaking entirely the game. This wonât happen.
This wonât happen cause consumers bought one game and you cannot change it entirely.
This wonât happen also cause they need to port the game to the xbox.
What i suggested would eliminate all limitations regarding gear, that we currently have in the game, once you play diff 3.
The only limitation that i suggested, would kick in for gear that is better than anything we can currently get in the first place.
This is ridiculous.
Why not?
You said that âIn this game the progression is in skills you develop.â.
How would getting a 380 weapon with blessings of choice remove any reason to play, if the whole reason to play is the development of personal skill?
well it affects me indirect, because there are at least 2 different kind of players that dont fit that good together because of their different philosophy playing games.
The ones who play foremost to have fun just playing and the ones whoâs fun is to work on something and getting rewards.
iâm not against it at all, you are making up something iâve never said
the only thing i stated is that the way it is done it only caused fuss and the people who want progression dont like it, therefore it would maybe have been better to not add it or try to add something like this at all and have less customers but a more homogenous group of customers and community.
We donât the same definition of limitations.
I prefer crafting system instead of a system where you have to up your weapon to 380 with tokens etc. The progression system is enough good.
What I really want is crafting system.
What community needs is also a way to get weapons they want / need without having to log perpetually.
There was several propositions that have been made that are interesting:
refreshing the shop after a mission
giving the weapon that the char unlocks
proposing at least one weapon of each you can use
Believe it or not, the devs wonât remake the game from scratch. Game has been tested⌠they can understand the community is not happy, they can try to implement solutions about problems pointed by the community, but they wonât change the entire way to play.
What you suggest is changing the core game. It cannot happen.
Unless you want to tell me that the core game is
âwaiting for the store rotation and repeatedly upgrading items with good base stats, hoping that RNGesus blesses you with good perks and blessings, so that you can stop upgrading items that will most likely end up in the garbageâ,
i think that nothing i suggested changes the core game.
Everything i suggested, builds upon the systems that are already in place.
For better understanding, please explain to me, what you think the current core game is, and how my suggestions would require a change of the core game.
To be honest, the issues with item progression DT has is the devs completely missing the point that it wasnât the itemisation system that kept some people playing Vermintide 2 for 1000+ hours. They themselves admitted that they were surprised that people did play for that long, and unfortunately some in Fatshark still do not understand why.
In VT2, The amount of time that you would interact with the itemisation would be about 150-200 hours for all characters at which point you ignored those sytems and just play, only really interacting with it when you want to try a new build or got a red of a weapon you use.
In DT, they are purposefully trying to get players to interact with the itemisation for the entirety of their hoped-for 1000+ hour playtime, but in the worse way possible, by making a system where winning the lottery is statistically more likely than getting a weapon you want. Pretty much by denying you items. With the current system there is no post-loot, no playing the game without worrying about items (unless you are really lucky). It stifles build variety, it stifles motivation due to the statistical amount of time it takes to get something good and for whatever reason thought that decoupling itemisation from playing the mission was a good idea, stifling any sense of achievement associated with getting items.
Fatshark missed the forest for the trees and bulldozed the whole thing.
Exactly why i said i dont know why this genre or game ever needs any form of progression.
It only causes fuss because it wont ever be able to be done right or endlessly satisfying to the ones who want a progression system. And FS will only tweak it and RNG will still be a thorn in the flesh.
The main cause people play this ad nauseum is because the core gameplay of missions is fun!
When you have your gear - be it 380BR with the T3 or T4 Blessings that compliment your playstyle or make the most sense, why would you ever go for the shop again or need crafting at all?
Itâs a carrot on a stick only, because people cant let go.
Meanwhile people already beat Damnation with blue weapons or Weapons below
350 BR with T3 blessings and perks that arent even what they want or good and are just fine.
The only thing we really need is more maps, more enemies, more story, more fluff, more classes.
not sure what part exaclty, but if you are someone who want or need progression and beeing rewarded with items to be motivated to play further and have fun i want to ask you what do you do when its done?
Do you stop playing until new class comes you can repeat the process?
What would be with a new map only, would it be interesting and motivating enough to play it? How often if there is no progression or reward connected with it?
5 times, 10 times, 50 times?
And then what?
see this is what i meant with artificially prolonged.
But iâm really interested if you would stop playing when you have BiS Gear for all of your characters and builds?
As implied with my post, for the people who kept on playing past getting BiS on all characters spent only about 20% of their total play time getting those items, and then proceeded to keep playing, most of the time to continue honing skill while having a static, foundational set of items so that they can remove as much of the randomisation on the part of the character as possible.
The gameplay was gripping enough that you can ignore the itemisation (after getting the BiS). You werenât forced to engage with the itemisation for the entirety of the 1000 hours. Which is what Fatshark is aiming for with DT currently.
Engagement.
That attempt of engagement and retention, I theorise ties into the cash shop to a degree, but most of the people Iâve spoken to from the VT2 crew that kept on playing post-itemisation, have pretty much said they have either stopped playing DT (because thereâs no end in sight for itemisation - item fatigue) or continue to play DT despite those sytems, not because of them.
Fatshark is trying new things, I understand that, but the things they are trying show me they are mostly missing the point of why VT1 and 2 was much-loved.
No. The gear progression is a bonus, that keeps the motivation up for longer and gives you specific goals to work towards.
New things tend to be interesting, at least for a while.
How often would i play a new map? No idea.
Same as other people i guess: depends on the quality of it and how enjoyable it is.
You could call it that, or you could call it additional content.
To me, it is additional content, that makes the game more interesting and gives me more things to do.
Imagine, someone plays diff 3 and is getting bored with the game.
Playing on higher difficulty could get them more excited again, but they have no ambition to improve their skill.
If you gave that person the option to gain a small amount of extra power by playing on diff 4 a bunch, that might be enough motivation to get them to play diff 4 and upgrade their items, which increases the overall time for which they enjoy the game.
Same as pretty much all the achievements in other games (or penances in Darktide). Specific things to do, which keep you engaged and keep you playing.
Having them, does not take away from the gameplay experience. They just add to it (with the exception of some of the penances that require you to do things that are pretty much self sabotage).
No. Once i have the perfect equipment, i can enjoy the game with the BiS gear that i earned.
Some people might quit the game once they have it, but they probably would have quit a long time ago if the game did not offer them gear progression to enjoy in the first place.
seen - therefore i said that this kind of additional content and motivation to play aka more things to do creates more fuss than everything else and it maybe would have been better to not stress about it at all.
It attracts people no question, but you want it this way, another wants it another way and i dont know a game everyone is happy with the progression systems it has.
Many talk like: Itâs done now i can enoy the game. Or they strive to the endgame what they call the âreal gameâ etc.
And based on that i made my statement.
All fine you want to improve what we have but like s.o. said FS will never get rid of RNG completely or rework it that much and fundamental that you can controll it to 100% and grind your BiS gear efficently or straight forward or whatever.
The whole point is player retention and with players i mean the players that need a progressions systems to be motivated at all, that need it or they just dont play it.
And FS came up with the easiest and possibly worst and RNG based systems ever and made everything RNG based and not even completed it.
And everyone likes the game, but hates these systems and the game gets bad reputation.
Thatâs why i said if they have left it out completely maybe some would have complained and said uh oh no progression system and itâs not for me and if they had communicated it before they wouldnât have even tried the game and we had way less to zero complains and the target audience just beeing happy with the game.
I think that having a good progression system is better than having none at all.
But i also agree that discontent and the overall complaints would likely be fewer, if FS had not put any itemization in the game at all (and if they had not promised to deliver proper crafting with high player agency and low rng).
Since FS did decide to put some type of progression in the game (which they did in a way that is universally disliked), the only way forward seems to be the implementation of a progression system that makes players happy.
My guess is all we get is a little less RNG like no locks on refining/ reblessing.
Hopfully beeing able to refine and rebless endlessly and some tweaks to the shops and a somwhat better chance getting a decent 350-380 weapon that we then can refine and rebless until we get that Weapons we want.
By the way i made a somewhat similar suggestion with beeing able to level BR and such a while ago: My wishes for complete crafting and more rewarding progression loop
Youâre wrong on this⌠it is not what is dilisked. Read reviews on steam.
I like the progression system cause⌠well we reach easily the level 30. And, I donât care of the progression cause it is, in my opinion, just a loss of time.
For me the core game is playing missions, experimenting templates and weapons, developping skills. The things around should just give what is needed for that.
There are lot of games that have a slow char progression. There are even where you have to play months to reach the limit⌠until a new dlc raises this limit.
If I wanted such games, I would not play DarktideâŚ
You are telling me, that most people do not dislike the current state of itemization in darktide?
Edit:
I just looked through a few negative steam reviews and aside from crashes, the majority of them also criticizes the itemization system or the lack of endgame.
Even positive reviews often criticize the lack of endgame or item customization.
So i have no idea what you are trying to tell me.
I am telling you that there is no topic about the progression. An thatâs what you talk about since the beginning of this thread.
Youâre confusing things. People complain cause the game has too much restrictions about getting a good weapon. They complain cause we have no crafting and cause we have to log every hour to check a shop and hope for something interesting. They complain cause emperorâs gifts donât correct this (especially with the psykers). People complain about the lack of possibility to ameliorate weapons and the RNG system.
What you want is not fixing that⌠you want something totally different. Anyways, as I said, they wonât change the entire game.
Offering us crafting and a fix about shops / emperorâs gifts is all that is asked to Fatshark. They could improve the system in the future. For now, we just want that they finish the game.
I have so many orange weapons cause I try to get blessings I want or a combination⌠Several could be perfect if we get the crafting system delivered.
I donât care to get a progression system. I just want they give me the way to get the good weapons I want. Actually, we canât.
Now i can not take you serious anymore, because if you actually read the OP thoroughly, you would notice that
i specifically named these issues
my suggestions would fix all of them
my suggestions explicitly build upon the systems that are already in place and do not require changes to the entire game (i purposely suggested a system that would make use of all the systems that are already in the game, without requiring many if any changes to them)
