What does this mean then?
or this?
If the THP talent gains THP on stagger strength, and piston power grants an “an immense stagger strength” then the THP stagger talent SHOULD reward me with THP, the Piston Power talent isn’t the one that’s broken, it does what it’s intended, it does indeed have a powerful stagger attack. So what it means is when I utilize the THP on stagger talent, then these two talents should have synergy, but they don’t? This suggest to me that the THP on stagger talent is broken.
No, it is abundantly clear that Piston Power is the talent that’s broken, because the stagger effect it grants is separate from any other and is not connected to the weapon, therefore it does not grant you tHP cause it’s not a stagger effect that counts as originating from the melee weapon. Same way with how stagger effects from ults don’t grant you tHP with tHP on stagger. I don’t know why you think it’s not Piston Power that’s broken, but I just explained it to you.
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I disagree, piston power isn’t broken, when I use the talent it always works and does the job.
The problem is the THP on stagger talent doesn’t recognize piston power as a strong stagger attack, and if it does recognize it, it only rewards 2THP, this suggest that THP on stagger doesn’t actually reward THP based on stagger strength, and if it’s unable to realize the stagger strength of piston power, what else is it missing? Other comments have mentioned they believe it’s a broken talent too as it only seems to work on weapons with poor damage output, like siennas dagger or shields, because if you kill a target you staggered you won’t gain any THP and that’s busted. I also heard it reported that if someone staggers an enemy before you do, you also won’t get any THP from it, and that makes zero sense, as you should be getting THP from staggered enemies as you’re applying another staggered count.
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What do you mean you disagree? This isn’t an opinion, I literally just explained to you why it doesn’t grant you extra tHP from stagger. Let me break it down for you:
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tHP on stagger only grants you tHP if you stagger and not kill enemies with a melee weapon. You do not get tHP from shotgun bashing or using abilities if you have tHP on stagger because it only works with your melee weapon, as do all tHP talents.
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Piston Power augments your melee weapon with a powerful stagger effect, but it DOES NOT increase the stagger power of your weapon. What it does is apply a separate stagger effect on top of your melee weapon.
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The 2 tHP you get from hitting that Chaos Warrior is your normal swing that’s giving you tHP. If you hit a Chaos Warrior with a heavy swing from your 2h hammer you will get this same effect cause you still lightly stagger the Chaos Warrior normally.
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The Piston Power effect is a separate effect that then hits the Chaos Warrior and actually knocks him down, but it is NOT an effect originating from your melee weapon, it does not increase melee stagger power, it’s a separate effect that is the same way an ultimate is, and therefore doesn’t grant you tHP. When you hit a Chaos Warrior with Piston Power you’re hitting him twice - once with your melee weapon, and once with Piston Power.
Got it?
I disagree. THP on stagger should not work this way, it should scale THP by how powerful your stagger attacks are, piston power should be included. You should also gain THP on staggered enemies you kill. It’s a broken talent tbh.
What are you actually disagreeing with here? A factual explanation of how tHP on stagger works and why Piston Power is broken? Why are you disagreeing with literal facts?
I’m not telling you how it should or shouldn’t work, I’m just telling you how it currently works. If you make Piston Power as it is work with tHP on stagger, you’d make all stagger effects separate from your melee weapon work, when you could easily fix this by just making it so Piston Power augments the stagger power of your melee weapon.
It’s not broken if it’s literally working as intended. Something is only broken if it’s doing something it’s not intended of doing, or not doing something it’s intended of doing. The broken talent is Piston Power for the reasons I literally just explained to you.
Yes, that’s how it already works, except for Piston Power because Piston Power is the broken talent because it doesn’t work with tHP on stagger.
What is this discussion even?
Okay, I think you’re just being eristic for the sake of it now.
I’ve already explained my points. The topic was never about your “explanation” of how THP stagger works. My disagreement is how THP on stagger currently works. I think it’s broken the way it is as its description is misleading. It states: “Health gained based on stagger strength.” Yet in practice this is clearly not true as piston power yields nothing and I disagree with your argument that “it shouldn’t apply” it absolutely should, it’s a melee focused talent and THP talents are based on melee actions.
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Are you intentionally being obtuse? Your whole argument is that tHP on stagger is broken because it doesn’t work with Piston Power, even though I’ve explained to you in full detail that it’s Piston Power that’s broken because it doesn’t work with tHP on stagger.
Yes, that’s how it works with every single melee weapon in the game, except for Piston Power because I’ve explained to you in full detail why. Piston Power is the one that doesn’t work with stagger tHP, not the other way around.
When did I ever say that it shouldn’t apply? Like come on man at least give me the courtesy of reading my comments.
My argument is that Piston Power shouldn’t grant tHP on stagger?
Not true. Doesn’t gain THP on staggered enemies you kill. Doesn’t gain THP on staggered enemies if they were staggered by another player. Doesn’t gain staggered THP on melee focused abilities (piston power, foot knights ult) it’s a poorly thought out talent that’s broken and needs rework.
Yes, that’s INTENTIONAL. It’s not BROKEN if it’s working as INTENDED to make it BALANCED.
“Staggering enemies with a melee attack grants temporary health. Health gained based on stagger strength”
Foot Knight’s Valiant Charge isn’t a melee attack. Piston Power augments your melee attacks and SHOULD work but currently doesn’t.
It’s not poorly thought out when there’s all these restrictions to make it balanced. If anything your argument should be that it’s ‘overthought’. Valiant Charge would grant you extreme tHP every 20 seconds or so would be completely broken.
Your argument has been that the talent is broken because it doesn’t work with Piston Power, even though I’ve explained to you in detail why it’s Piston Power that doesn’t work with tHP on stagger, not the other way around.
You just have fun dude.
Which is why I said from the very beginning “I disagree with how this talent works”
I’m glad you’re finally able to understand my opinion on the talent and why I think it’s broken in it’s current state. Also don’t blow a fuse over the semantics of “broken”, as I was just embellishing my argument.
I just saw your edit, here’s my response.
I also disagree that FK ult shouldn’t gain THP on stagger, it’s melee focused, he’s using his body as a battering ram, this is the definition of melee, to quote: “A melee or pell-mell is disorganized hand-to-hand combat in battles fought at abnormally close range with little central control once it starts”
I’d also make the argument that GK’s ult gains THP when he has THP on kill, so why shouldn’t FK get THP when he staggers enemies with his melee ult? He absolutely should.
Piston Power is a melee focused ability, we’re not talking about bombs here, we’re talking about once every 15 seconds gain a powerful stagger with your next charged attacked, and yet no THP when you use piston power, no synergy? This is broken.
My dude, please understand that I’m saying it should work, but it doesn’t because Piston Power is broken. Please, just understand that. Literally shaking and crying and cooming.
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I had no idea I got you so excited. All I can say is I hope you took a load off.
As for the piston power thing, yeah I understood what you were saying there from the start, I’m glad we agree that it should apply. I just think think the talent should apply to more melee things, like THP on stagger kills, and FK’s ult should gain stagger THP too. If GK can get 60 THP by killing two chaos knights with an ult, gaining, what, 20thp on average? In a dense horde shouldn’t be an issue either.
I would wager nobody knows except FS how THP stagger works
If footknight with +35% stagger takes a 2HH and swings into a horde, he is not gibing any of them except the 1st one sometimes
Yet he generates barely any THP - why? I can see clearly they are lying on the ground and talnent says
‘‘stagger strength = thp generated’’
But when I take a shield and do a 1st heavy into a horde, they too get sent to their asses BUT this time I get a half a healthbar worth of THP
Both are on the same amount of enemies
Now I dont want to nerf shield THP, that seems its working as intended
But every weapon that isnt shield or siena fire sword struggles to generate ANY thp at all
So even if engi piston talent worked it would still generate maybe 5 thp
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shield THP actually isn’t necessarily working as intended; stagger hp from bashes was limited to 5 enemies, to prevent being exploited for massive gains, but shield slams and fire sword/dagger do not have this limitation despite being able to be exploited for massive gains.
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I dont follow what is shield bash and shield slam?
Shield 1st heavy (which is iam not mistaken on ALL shields since BBB a shield bash attack) - generates THP from stagger in consistently large amounts
Pushing with weapons doesnt generate any THP
Siena Fire Sword (dagger cant say since I have never used it) same as shields 1st heavy attack generates consistently large amounts of THP
Outside of these (and the dagger if you say so I cant tell) no weapon I have tested comes even CLOSE to generating THP from stagger
Ergo Stagger THP is busted since take for example THP from multi hit
Greatsword and elf Dual Swords are THE multi hit weapons of the game
If multi hit thp worked as stagger thp
One handed sword which hits 4 enemies easy with light attacks would generate 1/5 of THP that those above do
Ergo stagger THP is either broken or badly designed
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by bashes I mean pushing
in the WoM beta it generated a rather considerable amount of thp before being given a target limit
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Pushing didnt give me THP once
Attack after push yes, but pushing itself no
During the beta, if I remember correctly, you got thp from block pushing and heavy shield bashes. It was mental on IB, there was a video going around of him staggering an entire CW patrol and generating more thp than they could deal. Essentially he was trapped in a corner for 5 mins but couldn’t be killed. FK can do something similar with his talents giving free pushes on blocking. So they capped the amount of thp you could get on stagger.