How do you feel about the acquisition rate of Red Items? [Poll]

Which one? I hit up youtube to have a look at the trailer but Kruber takes part in multiple shots with different hats in each and i am fairly positive all of those are in game and many of them are common at that.

That article claims legend emperors have 16.7% chance though?

I cant be sure but i figure the guy meant legend emperor vaults as most people will call them chests
: P

Given the droprate he quoted that is.

You did not get Emperor Vaults from daily quests. You get Emperor Chests.

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Well, maybe the acquisition of red items could be a little greater. But the biggest issue bar none is the fact that you get dupes. I don’t need three red handguns, I want a single red halberd. And FIVE dust for one red weapon which you don’t even get the skin for is the type of design decision that would’ve been present at launch and patched long ago. Yet here we are but it’s still the case.

The article mentions drop rates from both Emperor Chests and Emperor Vaults.

Emperor’s Chest:

Quickplay + 3 tomes + 2 grims + 4 dice
4.8%
1 in 21 chests

Emperor’s Vault:

Quickplay + 3 tomes + 2 grims + 4 dice
16.7%
1 in 6 vaults

I meant the fellow whom you wrote to about the droprate for reds in champion chests to first, not the article :sweat_smile:

Oh, I see. That would make more sense considering the droprate he first posted. But he specifically wrote Emperor Chest and I don’t think he would mistake what kind of reward you got from the daily quest before Shillings were introduced.

No, I specifically meant Emperor’s Chest and I was aware of the 5 % drop rate. I just didn’t remember the amount of reds on the Quest Board correctly. Probably because after a certain while the Quest Board only gave you dupes while some reds never appeared there.

I just don’t think it is the awesome tool some people want to believe it has been. It has advantages from gameplay and immersion perspective because the current system is rather dry and you “need” to do the dailies. But in terms of acquiring specific loot, the Emperor’s Chest is better.

I don’t think it is reasonable to use duplicate reds from the static cycle as a reason to lower drop chance, when we have already determined that it was RNG-based for the sake of this discussion.

I concede that this shows that it may be better to get Emperor Chests compared to the quest board in the most extreme scenarios (like someone only missing 1 illusion on 1 character). However, if you are missing illusions on multiple characters, then the quest board would become better than chests.

So to summarize, the quest board would, compared to daily emperor chests:

  1. Be less time consuming and less grindy. Checking the board (or a reddit thread) once per day would be more player-friendly than having to log on every third day and complete the dailies. I think that people should play when they want to, and not feel forced to do it for the sake of completing the daily quests.

  2. Provide more reds. It would be spread out over all characters, but as long as you aren’t only missing 1 illusion, you would benefit more from it compared to daily emperor chests.

  3. Make it easier for people that play modded to get red illusions they desire. They could check the board every day and resume playing modded if they didn’t find what they want. I don’t see modded realm players coming onto official realm just to grind daily emperor chests.

  4. Be more interesting (personal opinion). Getting to check out possible loot you can work towards every day was much more interesting in V1 compared to doing a short quest and getting an Emperor Chest in V2.

  5. Provide a source of hats. Something the Emperor Chests don’t.

I’ve never seen the one at 2.44 before. Single feather open helm.

I think I can’t get unchained without a mask like 3.31 either which she looks BADASS.

Also it’s always worth rewatching that.

[edit] Dem fellas at 1.48 had some real bad insta-spawn behind you and give you a cheeky stab going on.

No, this is not true. Once you establish that the chance to get a red is higher with chests, and that the nature of the red is random in either case, it doesn’t matter if you miss one or all reds. Chests would be better. And since you can open chests on whichever character you like, chests give you more of an ability to target a specific red (though very broadly), which the board doesn’t have. In fact, that makes chests even better when you are missing one specific item.

Another note on the board: I don’t know how it is for you, but for a lot (or even most?) of us, there are plenty of days where real life just prevents you from being able to log in at all. Imagine missing one specific item, and then just not being able to log in to claim the quest? Or having 2 specific ones you miss pop up in short succession so you have to choose? Those things are aggravating as fück…

The way the old Q&C board could still work, however, is if you have control over which reward you’re working towards, intead of it being random. And then up the required numbers of keys, sure, but it’ll be infinitely better than RNG to be able to target the reward you’re working towards.

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I feel like the rate is fine, but getting duplicates constantly should be addressed. I feel like I am missing just a few weapons in red yet whenever I get reds they are either always jewelry or weapons I already have. Need to have a higher chance to get weapons you DONT have.

Yes I understand I am still making progress but 5 red dust for 1 weapon that I want is really annoying and bitter game-play “mechanic” after opening tons of chests and getting X or Y weapon that I already have in red again and again and again

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It is true, but the deciding factor is if you are missing reds on multiple characters or not. The chance to get a specific red on ONE character may be better, on the condition that you open all the chests on that single character and aren’t missing reds on different characters. You have 1 red on one character per 3rd week with the Emperor Chests. With the quest board however, we determined that you get 1 red per week. Every 3rd week you would have 3 red items, but they would be split over all 5 characters. As long as you aren’t just missing items on one character, the quest board would provide more reds. (1 per week vs 1 per 3rd week.)

Sure, there are days you are busy, but if you don’t even have time to log on a day, I don’t see someone being able to consistently grind all 365 Emperor Chests from the daily quests. The quest board would be more forgiving in that part, since you don’t actually have to play the day you are busy, you can just log on and accept the contract for that item.

With RNG, we simply meant which items showed up on the board. The board would still work as it did in V1, for the sake of the discussion.

Agreed. I was never too bothered by the unavailable hats until now. When the Emporium released I was so excited to get my hands on all those missing cosmetics.

But no… the Emporium launched in a really underwhelming state and has recieved basically no updates since.
The fact we know they have plenty of stuff ready for use just makes the whole thing so much more annoying.

I would really like a dev update on what the plans are for the Emporium and the locked cosmetics.
Having to see Lohner standing there being useless every time I enter the keep is worse than any bug in the game.

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I think the drop rates themselves are okay from what I’ve seen people say they are, but that the complete lack of useful (if any) RNG and dupe protection is absolutely insane. I’ve got a solid 700 or so hours in the game and am still nowhere near having every red item, which is an obscene grind even for a game that is based heavily around loot grinding.

Even in those games, where you might have a stupid low drop rate on some item and have to run a boss a bunch to get it, you at least know you’re working towards a particular item, rather than just hoping stuff drops from a global pool (I even think borderlands 3 moved away from the global pool approach because it was so disliked).

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What do you mean with this?
So you want to have individual chests for weapons/charms etc?
Or what do you mean with global pool?

Or you just don’t want weapons to drop duplicates?

I personally think that this is a folly. The game is heavily based around cooperative player interaction, tactics and satisfying melee combat. Most of the RPG/HackNSlash elements brought into the game along with the essentials are a game design flaw and should not be considered one of the goals of the game.
Leveling and hero power is a very meek attempt at proper matchmaking, while all the vanity stuff is just done plain wrong because all the unnecessary randomness involved.

YMMV, but I voted for higher red rates to offset the compound rarity of getting what you want. Making stuff so rare just draws unnecessary player attention and diverts it from the actual goal of the game, which is masterfully slaying the pactsworn as a team of heroes, pulling off insane stunts and combinations in face of a diverse set of challenges for any skill level.

P.S. Forgot to add, I have 1.1k hours in game and I have all red illusions for one character and that’s it. Not because RNG is a beatch, but because I hate looking at the “chest movies” after every match, that I cannot bring myself to spend even more time afterwards opening them. When I paid FS I wasn’t buying a chest opening simulator.

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It took me roughly 1000 hours of full book Legend runs to get all the reds (either directly or through crafting).

That’s still missing a lot of red ILLUSIONS, of course. Now the question is, is that a reasonable amount of time? 1000 hours is a LOT of time spent on a single game and the only thing red items allow you to do is not having to spend hours rerolling items.
On the other hand, very few people “need” red versions of all weapons, but you can’t target drops for specific reds and have to sacrifice 5 other reds to craft a particular one.
Assuming a 20% droprate on emperor vaults, you’ll need on average 5 runs for a red, for 5 reds, so 25 successful full book runs or roughly 10 hours just to get a SINGLE specific red while eradicating all the other reds you get in that timeframe.

That’s the length of a singleplayer game, just to get a specific red weapon, and you don’t even unlock its illusions that way. When I write it out like this, it sounds nuts.

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Because it is.

Also, your estimation is extremely optimistic IMO.
Full book QP Legend runs don’t even guarantee an Emperor’s, for that you would need an additional 4 Loot Dice. If let’s say, you get 2 loot dice on average, that’s about a 50-50 percent that you would get an Emperor’s depending on Ranald’s Gift, and General’s has about a 10% red drop rate. In addition, Emperor’s Vaults don’t even have a 20% red drop rat, they have about 17% from we’ve gathered. But let’s say they do, just for the hell of it.

All told, this means you need about 7 runs per red, so an overall 35 successful full book runs.
Assuming you play pretty fast and can manage a run in 25 minutes, and taking loading times, the occasional bad luck or screw up, and time in the keep into consideration, that would end up being about 30 minutes per run, thus an overall of 17.5 hours per red. 15 if we’re being generous.

If you really wanna farm reds you just get 4 good players, you glitch all ur deeds on legend and add twitch with boons.

Guaranteed emp chest + deed reward in 20 ish minutes or even less

Open ur chests, get more deeds, repeat, untill you have no more deeds.

Or you speedrun 1 modifier deeds with no twitch in 14 ish minutes solo

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Fixing red droprates is a bandaid fix anyway, they really need to go scorched earth on the item system and come up with something that combines the best parts of the Athanor with the joy of loot.
Sadly I don’t see them doing what’s necessary this late.

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