Hive Scum’s “Nimble” talent says that it increases time considered dodging by 50% but actually decreases it.
I just tested it by counting frames between when a dodge starts and when the first bullet of a gunner enemy hits you. With and without the talent. It’s noticiably shorter every time with the talent equipped.
The attached video proof makes it noticeable just by how long the sound lasts as I cut it exactly from when the dodge starts and when taking a hit. But you might need to throw the file into a video editor to see the exact frames where damage happens and how long each section lasts.
The buff in question is dodge_linger_time_modifier and it increases the duration of the dodge linger time, the time period that is granted after the actual dodge time to prolong the effective duration of the is_dodging state – this buff only applies when dodging melee attacks. This is not covered in the video.
The fact that the dodge appears shorter against ranged attacks is arguably – I’m not too familiar with this system – because of the second buff Nimble provides: dodge_distance_modifier. This buff modifies the distance scale which is part of determining the current dodge speed down the line.
The buff you highlighted (dodge_linger_time_ranged_modifier) is a different one that is currently not used anywhere in the game; same is true for dodge_linger_time_melee_modifier.
The only dodge linger buff commonly being used at the moment is the base one:dodge_linger_time_modifier. For reference, the Nimble buff template. You can search the code base for the other two buffs, they are not called anywhere.
EDIT: Those two buffs are from a time when Fatshark still wanted to have separate buffs for different scenarios (melee/ranged) but then decided against it and had dodge linger apply to melee only. Hence the late check for is_melee in line 145. This was done for the release patch of the game in 2022, previous game versions (closed beta and pre-order beta) did not have this check yet. With the current implementation, they can only use the base buff to do what they wanted.
This lines up with my testing of it as well. I found that the distance does work, but the dodge duration is inverted essentially. I’d imagine it should be hotfixable.
“dodge_linger_time_ranged_modifier” and “dodge_linger_time_melee_modifier" are parts of “dodge_linger_time_modifier" which is the part of “dodge_linger_time" and “dodge_linger_end_time"
No, they are two individual buffs. They get added up with the base linger buff to calculate the final dodge_linger_time_modifier if there is a value for them defined. But they default to 1 if there is no actual value – and there is none because those two buffs are not used anywhere (again, search the code base). Line 140 makes sure that only the base linger buff value remains in this case (minus 2).
Well, maybe we are looking in the wrong direction here.
I tried to remove Nimble yesterday, and my character received way less hits during/after dodging (both ranged and melee), a huge difference in survivability.
At least I can confirm that OP is right, Nimble is more of a debuff right now (whichever codeline is the reason).
Yes, because Nimble’s second buff (dodge_distance_modifier) is modifying dodge speed down the line. The velocity during dodge is increased but not the dodge distance, so the dodge is over sooner. This obviously affects dodge actions against any attack. The linger buff still helps dodges against melee attacks.
It’s weird that it’s behaving this way for Nimble, but for the Fervor buff from the stimms I haven’t noticed any similar issues, despite it granting both dodge distance, and dodge speed.
Any ideas on which modifiers they would need to adjust/change to make it perform more along the lines of how it reads?
dodge out of crusher, wait for swing to hit, dodge into it with zero gap and nimble should still put you in “dodge” but instead you will still get hit. same thing with maulers. it’s “easier” to test it against slow, hard hitting, telegraphed enemies rather than ragers. also completely fails against snipers, watch the telegraphed shot and dodge at the flash before the shot but you still get hit.
is there a mod like uptime that tracks these kind of passive talents post game? see the uptime of dodges when nimble is used or when its not?
or something that shows if you are still in “dodging” or not in game? like a dodge counter that is red when not in dodge or green when in dodge?
I haven’t had the chance, but I have been running nimble for the last 30 hours and the amount of dogs, muties that catch me is insane, literal muscle memory failing me and seemingly because of this talent.
Whatever it’s supposed to do it should at least make it very clear what it does. It does seem to actually end dodge time earlier. Maybe it’s a talent for slow/low dodge weapons then?
Without having looked at all the changes introduced with today’s patch 1.10.3, it looks like that dodge_linger_time_modifier now also applies when dodging ranged attacks.
This benefits all characters except Ogryn whose base linger time remains 0.
The issue with dodge_distance_modifier shortening the effective dodge duration has not been addressed directly. The change to linger time, though, should make dodging ranged attacks with Nimble selected be and feel better.
