The dodge distance and speed of the knife and pistol both seem to have gone down. You can no longer easily circle and easily evade ranged fire which were some of the biggest strengths of those weapons. Why nerf them?
8 Likes
The intent was to remove chain-dodge kiting, which with the more nimble weapons enabled you to move at faster than sprint speeds while maintaining dodge state. We introduced a slower speed towards the end of the dodges in general so there is a bit of a pause between moving really fast while chaining dodges.
Knifes and nimble wepons still keep their high effective dodge counts, but the ability to circle dodge and feel properly agile is something that we want the weapons to keep, just at a more balanced level. Will keep an eye on it, thank you for your feedback.
2 Likes
Thank you for the response, I think you might have gone a bit tooo far on the nerf here. While yeah, being faster than sprinting was probably a bit insane, the distance of the dodge needs to come up just a bit from where it currently is I think. It honestly doesnāt feel much better than the eviscerator now
4 Likes
Im inclined to agree here, chain dodging has been a staple of the series in terms of VT1 and 2, the answer here should not have been nerf dodge overall but rather nerf those weapons dodge, as much as i love it, knife and saber have NO business dodging as far as they do.
The main benefit of the knife/pistol combo was that you could easily disengage from melee to pop a special with a single dodge, and then seamlessly move back in. It felt a lot more like playing VT2 tbh. Now you will get hit from only one dodge when swapping and firing
3 Likes
Yup, I donāt think there was anything wrong with how they were before. Should change it back tbh.
4 Likes
Made an account just to complain about it lol. I wonāt lie Iām pretty salty because of what seems like a railroad weapon decision. I wanted to talk about it because I feel like this decision was rather poor or extreme. Iām talk about it from a Veteran POV that has 55 hours into both beta combined, so I have some knowledge with what Iām talking about. I used sword/revolver in previous and until now knife/revolver in this one. Iām glad youāre making changes, this one just feels rather extreme.
I dont understand the logic of the extreme nerf of removing dodge distance by what feels definitely feels like 50% distance so the mobility weapons are just straight up inferior weapons than the other ones now as they dodge the nearly the same amount distance(testing shows its feels like 1.5x more distance compare to powersword) and do less damage. So now you just straight up cant even kite with knife, you donāt do damage, so why bother the weapon is obsolete when you can use the powersword. There is not a single argument to be made here to use knife over powersword or any other sword. Powersword does more single hit and does more damage and has more and has more range Using the knife now is griefing your team and its playstyle was destroyed so I canāt even justify it being āfor funā.
Then you also nerf the ability to even dodge for a while with it, fair enough I can understand why, but you made it so low I cant even dodge for more than 10 seconds. The statement that you kept high effective dodge count is a lie. Iāve tested it in the meatgrinder myself you can dodge 9-10 times before it straight up falls off. That sounds like a lot, but you canāt kite hordes with that amount of dodges and deal with elites as well. So now knife cant even kite hordes now as it doesnt have cleave power and it cant dodge horde attacks, more bonus into railroading into powersword. It just feels weird from the same team that made VMT 2. Especially since enemies in this game attack way further compare to VMT2 and have tracking in this game. There are clear videos of proof of this on the darktide reddit page.
Then you also nerf the pistol damage from previous beta and its mobility, I dont see why you have any reason to use it. Its just an inferior bolter, it reloads just as slow and does less damage, has less ammo, has less ammo capacity, and it moves just as slow. Test it in meat grinder if you really donāt believe me because I have. I do 80% of a maulerās hp pool on Difficulty 3 with a 5 headshots on a level 24+ character. Previous beta it was 2-3 shots and a kill and that was with a worse pistol.
It really feels you want to force players to use power sword, bolter if they are Vet. Sure there are optimal weapons in every game, but I really donāt enjoy seeing you nerf a playstyle like this. I dont see why I would bother with the Duck and Dive perk anymore since the dodge playstyle is ruined.
Now Iām obviously bias since I like the playstyle, but I dont see how that playstyle was āoverpoweredā as the knife doesnāt exactly kill specials unless you heavy knife them in the head 3 times and it allows you to dodge hordes, which isnt exactly crazy since you can just sword cleave them anyway. The ability to actually dodge felt more like skill expression if you dodge melee hits compared to just hit them hard with a powerful weapon.
Just for reference, in my test the knife does 80 damage to the head of a mauler, powersword does 320. It does 240 to flack armor and 336 to unarmored. In comparison the powersword does 451 to flack and unarmored. This is charged of course for power sword. If its not charged the damage was around 200ish per swing on flack and unarmored. and 52 on mauler. These were weapons with a 1 power score difference as well.
TLDR: I feel like youāre railroading us into āoptimal weaponsā under the excuse of removing chain-dodging. Anybody that has done any testing or played the playstyle knows that the nerf completely kills the weapon straight up as you canāt dodge anymore.
10 Likes
All dodges nerfed
Game is boring now. I may have to refund. Iām not sure that is just the sleep deprivation talking
6 Likes
Iām thinking about refunding the game right before the releaseā¦ Dodges is now useless. This broke the gameplay experience and make my toon āpreacherā unplayable. Not fun anymore
Bring back dodges please
4 Likes
good change. having āsolo heroā players dodge themselves a mile away from squad coherency and then rage at everyone for not reviving them when they get mobbed or stunned was a pain in the backside.
Difficulty 4/5 donāt even play like a Warhammer game anymore. More like CS:GO or Sniper Elite snipefests.
Canāt dodge slide into melee, so no opportunities to melee.
Hordes of ranged trash and autogun specials/ogryns perma-rooting you and interrupting attacks.
Letās say you manage to get into melee. You canāt dodge-slide while fighting while getting shot to hell and permastunned while the AI shoots THROUGH its own units.
Please get rid of ranged stun/roots, or unnerf dodge-slides, or get rid of AI shooting through itself.
6 Likes
you have that kind of players with or without the dodge, you clearly donāt focus on the right problem here. Melee is now useless along with 3 type of weapons
5 Likes
bump
Iād prefer sprint speed be increased to overtake the speed that those weapons were moving while dodging, and the change undone. Itās super fun to dash around with high mobility weapons and distract enemies. Entire playstyle axed from the game is super lame.
5 Likes
I could write essey but I will just say this: this, dodge stopping stamina regen, range weapon switch animation, slowing down gameplay, range stunlock/movement cancels etc.
You guys takes best things from Vermintide 2, the system that MADE you and you are actively trying to make it worse. For no reason. You have some vision of Darktide, but gameplay experience does not go hand to hand with your vision. You make tested solutions worse, you add unnecessery stuff to things that worked well, you rework things that didnāt need reworks. I suggest you rethink that approach as taking something that is perfectly fine and changing it just for the sake of āmaking it differentā is not recepie for success in any field.
9 Likes
isnāt āchain-dodge kitingā part of the game though? Am i wrong? Even though this is Darktide, it still plays similar to Vermintide II. In VT II players would āchain-dodge kiteā around the hoard to control it , and not get surrounded. I dunno man, this nerf doesnāt feel right with me. So far, not happy with the zealot, psyker, and dodge changes lol
I also wanted to add: In VT II everyone is mobile, so its pretty fun. In VTII dodge + jump had more distance than regular walking, it outpaced almost everything (unless im remembering wrong, but im pretty sure). It didnāt make you invulnerable, youād still be getting killedā¦but its FUN
6 Likes
I agree, not fun anymore. If no fix, we still can refund the game before it release (heard lot of players will do that if)
4 Likes
Iām also thinking of refunding, seems like devs just want to remove anything thatās āfunā. Zealot is no longer fun to play, Psyker isnāt fun either and is lacking, game feels like itās built around Sharpshooterā¦ And now we canāt dodge. lol ok
5 Likes
People are being quite dramatic. This change is a downgrade, but as a knife/pistol zealot Iām not having particularly more trouble on difficulty 4 than I was and still having fun.
Also, revert the change. Itās a bad change. Refund worthy, no, but bad. Or fix cover. Or remove ranged stun. Or, ideally, all three.
4 Likes
Being able to outpace everything was the problem
1 Like