I mean, when they’re gonna introduce new careers, wouldn’t it be cool to add classes which have passives/career skills for that kind of job. We already have a similar effect in Waystalker passive + Rejuvenating Locus talent, but I think they could consider something more unique.
Stuff like a career skill that shoots a dart which heals a single ally for a certain amount of hp: talents at level 30 would increase the amount of hp healed, remove scars on top of the heal, or add a small damage reduction buff for the rest of the game. Or one that creates an area in which allies are healed and enemies are damaged by a hot/dot (similar to Wargor), it could be improved by increasing this amount, increasing the radius/duration or adding a movement debuff to the enemies when they are in the area. Even a career skill that buffs allies letting them restore hp based on kills/dmg dealt during its duration.
Passives which could heal the team when a tagged enemy dies, or make allies restore hp when they drink a potion. I mean, the possibilities are endless.
I like the fact that different careers are built around 4 concepts: damage mitigation, stuns, support/buffs and dps, which appear in various forms between perks/talents/ultimates and can overlap each other. Adding a 5th one in the form of healing would bring so more depth. I think healing abilities are such a cool mechanic, I feel like the idea behind Waystalker is cool, but it’s left too much unexplored. Plus it would add even more of an rpg vibe to the team comp.
I wanna stretch this out, we are not talking about a dedicated type of healers, whose job is to constantly heal the group and nothing more. “Healer” characters would be able to be competent dmg dealers like any other class in the game, just not as a Shade/BH for example, while providing another type of sustain to the party.
Healing is so extremely powerful in this game that I doubt any healer-like class will ever be added. The closest things we have is Kerillian’s amaranthe and Kruber shouting you into health, and they’re already extremely powerful abilities even in their limited form.
WHC had this as a talent and it had to get removed. It was 2 thp, too.
Don’t forget Unchained! She can spread a lot of Temp Health with her special talent as well.
Like @KaelusvonSestiaf said: A healer career would be way too powerful in this game. People often see the classes in this game like they see classes in an MMO; “Tank”, “DPS”, “Healer”, etc… But you should realize this an absolutely different kind of game, where that approach doesn’t really work.
I think it could be done, but it would be hard. Something like a class that gets stacks from kills which can then be turned to thp with it’s ULT. Or perhaps a buff/debuff class? It would need a serious downside though… Something like only 1 handed light weapons or no ranged weapon. If it was a dedicated healer, perhaps no melee weapon, you would have to rely on your team mates for protection. Just a shield and casting weapon for heals.
Well, I don’t agree on the second part, it depends on what aspect of the game you are referring to. If we are talking about QP, then sure, there’s no defined role, as the classes are random. If we look at premade runs, then tell me, and sincerely so, if you think that the best team comp is FK IB HM and unchained, or maybe BH WS RV pyro. Of course they aren’t, because in both of the comps you have all 4 heroes that fit in the same role. If you suddendly merge 2 heroes of the former with 2 of the latter, you then have a not-so-bad team comp.
Sure, if we compare it to co-op pvp standards, in which you bring heroes which do a single job and only that one, it’s undeniable that this type of comparison is not even remotely plausible. But roles do exist in this game.
As for the first point, I agree with you, it’s a damn strong ability, but you can always tweak numbers. I want to reflect upon the nature of such skills, which I think they’re very cool and haven’t seen enough room in the game yet.
I didn’t deny the complete existence of roles, but I denied the existence of roles as they are commonly understood in MMO’s. Vermintide doesn’t really have a “Tank” as in MMO’s, but there is a sort of “Frontliner”, that has some similarities but isn’t quite the same thing. And so on with other roles. And a “Healer” just doesn’t fit in the Vermintide gameplay.
While I agree that you can’t make a comparison with traditional co-op games, and that that the game is better defined by frontliner/backliner/sniper etc…, you can’t deny the fact that a character with 8 stamina shields, a passive that screams “Trade hits!!!”, a career skill which pulls all enemies to him and gives him 80% dmg reduction, is a tank.
Now, as I said, no dedicated healers, that’s a nono, but what about having characters, who fit in those position roles just like all the others, that have SOME aspects (could be an ulti, could be the passive, could be perks) related to healing? Like waystalker already does! Do you consider her a “traditional” healer? No! But does she do some sort of heal? Yes! So that’s the point I’m trying to make. Why can’t we see more of that instead of “you have x% dmg reduction” or “press f to kill things-things”.
I think if you had a map that had no healing or repawning relying only on a cleric/priest to get you through it could make for an interesting weave or event… but many classes have talents that help you stay alive and health in certain places kinda helps with the pacing of a map…
That said part of me wishes for a game more like D&D where there are many more classes than the traditional 4 or 5 setting up camp between maps to heal, re-equip and recover, searching for real treasure chests in dungeons fighting all sorts of beasts across all forms of terrains… Vermintide is the closest I have come to this
V1’s main concept was that the Skaven defeat you with attrition.
It tried to be in the second game too, but with THP the concept got quite screwed.
Beside Natural Bond, any talent providing green HP is too strong and should be removed, the elf only gets it because Kerillian is Fatshark’s little pet who has to have everything.
I play healers all the time in MMOs and while it’s great, it would cause major problems in this type of game.
1.) Would devs have to add a healer career to each hero?
Problem: There is no role lock in the game which means you could get into a QP match with all healers and most healers in MMOs do not deal high enough dps to tackle bosses/lords. Trust me on this as I would be last player standing in hardmode dungeons and while it’s not impossible for a healer to solo a boss, it does take a LONG time.
2.) Would devs have to create a whole new hero for this?
Problem: then the devs would have to remove all the other types of healing from the other careers like thp talents, necklace traits, and thp on ultimate to even make the healer needed or viable. Or only the healer hero would have access to the necklace traits and thp on ultimate. They would then have to add a role lock to ensure a healer gets into each game but would also cause queue times to increase drastically. The whole QP function would have to be reworked to not start a mission until all roles have been filled. I already have to sit in dungeon queues in ESO for 15min and they have 13 million players in total. Imagine how long queues would be if we have to wait for a healer with only 3-4k players per hour.
With all of the current thp talents we do have and the necklace traits, healers aren’t really needed in this game. It would be a neat idea but the game is just not made for it. Plus the devs would have to remake almost the entire game just to add healers then come up with different necklace traits and new talent rows for the non healer heroes in the game.
They would also have to rework the tanks to be able to continuously reapply a taunt to keep all the enemies off the squishy DDs and the healer. It would just remove the entire feel of what this game is about and turn it into a 4 player MMO style game.
Also, DDs would have to be reworked to only have dps talents and traits.
Like I said, it’s a neat idea but it would completely change the whole game. I like being able to experiment with different things and play off meta builds just for fun. In MMOs where there is a role lock, you are confined to staying within that role and there isn’t typically any room for experimentation. Especially if you want to do harder content like raids.
Waystalker can be rolled as a healer with healshare and team-wide hp regen (Zealots will not like it tho)
Since most careers can’t afford to run healshare as it (currently) turns off temp health generation, if you can manage not to get hit too often as WS you’ll be fine especially if yu have a Mercenary/Unchained on the team to provide temp health.
Also now that Medkits clear wounds for both the user and the recipient, healing is at an okay spot I’d say.
The problem with adding dedicated healer careers is that they have to be balanced around that, which means they can provide healing and basicly nothing else, maybe some crowd control and basic trash clearing (skavenslave level) but that’s it, because otherwise it will be overpowered as hell, which means it would require a certain team composition…obviously resulting in that composition being OP than anything else (remember Permadot BW?).
Summa summarum: adding a direct/dedicated healer career would cause more problems than solutions in my opinion.
Already pseudo healer careers don’t need anything greater. We basically have a slight specialization in characters & not so much classic mmo roles.
Tanky, defensive & health passives / talents
Melee DPS, boosts to melee, sometimes at costs of tankiness or range.
Range DPS, boost to range damage usually at cost of health / lack tankiness
Support, passives / talents or abilities that support team mates.
Mobility/Clutch Factor, movement and survival boosts in dangerous scenarios.
Careers almost practically never fall into one category and have multiple elements to each career a pure healer would be detrimental to team if not overpowered.
…I’d guess future careers would pan out as… hyrbrid roles and overlap. Range/Melee hybrids, range/tanky or more of the same. New hero’s wouldn’t have to history of the Uber 5, new careers within the Uber 5 if anything new is coming.
For a long time, I’ve been wanting a ghyran-based spellcaster as a PC.
Could either be a jade wizard or a spellsinger, but a spellsinger would give us more options since elves can learn and master all magic, whereas humans can only master one wind- essentially, the jade wizard would be locked to jade magic, whilst the spellsinger would be able to cast spells from Ulgu (shadows), Shyish (death) and Ghur (beasts), in addition to Ghyran (life).
That means that a spellsinger could have vastly different “career” playstyles than a jade wizard, who would have all their “careers” locked to jade spells. A spellsinger gives more freedom to FS in terms of playstyle variety, spells and talent choices.
Essentially, if a spellsinger became playable, one of those careers would have to be Ghyran-oriented, which could have pseudo-healing and wound-closing abilities and talents, given that a pure healing class would’ve been “too powerful” as stated by @KaelusVonSestiaf.
One that gives THP to all players around them or exchanges their own health for the health of other players, or plants DoTs on enemies for slight HP recovery, or afflicts players with barkskin as they rack up kills with certain abilities.
One such class could even have talents like a permanent Armour of Thorns, which reduced damage taken and reflected some damage back to the attacker, with an additional talent that makes it groupwide but at a weaker version.
It also implies people are taking enough damage to heal. If you play properly you can do full runs without dropping below 80% HP.