Checking back in at a bit after 8pm PST/11pm EST, absolutely peak play time, and there’s a whopping 3 parties in the Party Finder, none of them with more than 2 people.
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i did. a lot of people were playing it at all times. i dont know why the gamemode has to be changed this drastically instead of adding new ranks on top with the new balance. it would’ve been good.
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What were you expecting, 200 parties of 2 looking for more players? It’s looking for group. The people who are currently looking for a group are shown, not the number of people currently playing.
If there are 50 people playing, or 5000 people playing, the majority are in a party of 4 and don’t show in looking for a group because they have a group.
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You never cleared Havoc 40 or achieved True Survivor prior to the Havoc revamp.
You and I have already discussed this, and I offered to play with you and get you to rank 40 and True Survivor, or simply play a match together, but you firmly declined.
I think it’s fantastic that you enjoy the game; I do as well, and Mortis Trials is a fantastic foundation to expand on, but it’s strange how you’re continually arguing against criticism when you don’t play at the difficulty tiers that people are referring to.
That would be like me trying to convince Valve (Icefrog) to balance Dota 2 the way I want them to while, in reality, I am unranked (I am) because I am bad at Dota 2 in terms of decision making, technical, and game knowledge.
I love that you love the game, Badwin, but why are you engaging in discussions about topics you have no firsthand knowledge of?
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What were you expecting, 200 parties of 2
Yeah, like it was on Havoc release?
No. People are loosing, and leaving matches and go back to the party finder. Some log out, new people log in. There is a constant players rotation. With your logic when there is new update, it shouldn’t be possible to find any game in aurics either.
The only update that increased average online was crafting rework.
Even skill tree effect was temporary, there was a spike and a rapid decline. However it showed there is a demand for the real content. Peak was 30k online.
Imagine if they listened to their community?
They just don’t care. DT is a milking machine and testing field for their next project - Havoc as Weaves 2.0, and Mortis Trials as FoW+Chaos Wastes.
PvP for V2 after 7 years, noone cares about it. They are just testing ideas to put in a new game.
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this,
with the looming strike boogyman, as soon as the tiniest fkkup the team implodes and runs for the hills.
maybe we would have needed 5 tries to get the combo running smooth and anyone aquainted to each other but nooo, its permadeath to tries by default.
hell, when i played tarkov i would scav all day, my stash was bursting with good stuff but i’d never bring it into “real” matches out of sheer spite that no one would have “my stuff” in case of death.
darktide copied tarkovs gear-fear 
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Would anybody miss havoc if it was gone? I’m not asking to be snide, just as a litmus test.
If the proverbial server in which I’m pretending it’s contained for my analogy suddenly caught fire but the rest of the game was undamaged, would anyone lament the absence of it going forward? Would there be thread upon thread posted in memorial of it? It seems to me that if the answer is predominantly no, then perhaps the development time is best spent elsewhere in future…
Bit of a simplistic analogy, but I think it gets the point across. Again, more power to you if you enjoy it, but I’m just thinking about the broadstrokes of its current status.
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Havoc is definitely not a waste of time. Many games in the coop horde shooter genre have these end all be all modes for sweats to put their time and effort in - there is nothing wrong with that (stuff like death sentence OD in payday or deep dives in deep rock for example).
The problem is, i think, that the community is kind of fatigued by the very sparse updates lately that mostly focus on havoc. Last time we got a new map and weapons was in december last year. Mortis Trials are a welcome addition but definitely not tuned right for what they aim to be and they have little variety especially on the map side.
If we got a few more normal missions, some new weapons (longlas, melta, 2h chainaxe maybe? just spitballing ideas) and maybe some new interesting modifiers for the auric mission board I think the sentiment would be much more positive. If anything, Havoc seems to almost be in a place where it does not need any more major changes for it to just exist.
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DRG supports mods, so you kinda can craft your own difficulty. Wich is what Twitch and Deeds were allowing in V2.
So yes, Havoc is a waste of time. You can’t have end game in the game where is no side progression systems or things to grind. Payday and DRG has much more things, be it tones of cosmetics or presige levels.
Neither it’s unique enough. What they should have made is Twitch+Deeds reimagined difficulty constructor mode.
Easy ride towards No man’s sky level of comeback:
- new enemies and an overhaul for the current ones, making them mechanicaly more challenging
- new weapons
- maps in new biomes
- Twitch+Deeds difficulty constructor for the “end game”
- Prestige levels
- Maybe horde mode if you rly want some new audience, but a good one with vendors, upgrades, turrets you can place, etc. Not just waves and that’s it
- Side systems, like npc faction, quests chains for cosmetics, color palettes to dye your items
- Unlockable gameplay relared things (easy to achieve)
- New faction
- admech for the new class
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Boss damage, but that is such a miniscule thing its not worth mentioning.
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I watched a few videos on the changes and hey look good to me. 30 years ago if I had a group of friends playing we would have been all over that mode like a cheap suit.
Some people having problems with the changes because they don’t understand the shift in how everything is triggered and by using the old rush plan they’re effectively self wiping. The changes need more time for people to adjust
But as I said 30 years ago I would have cared, today. Well, I haven’t even bothered looking for a group to do havoc rank 1 yet, and have no plans to. It is good to see content for the fringes, but the op is right, it would make sense to fix the foundations first and the game I think has systemic problems.
If you’re having to sacrifice pacing and push the use of specific builds to leverage difficulty, you probably have core issues that just throwing bigger and more at the players is breaking as much as it’s providing.
Need to row back on player power, as unpopular as it.
Show me where I ever claimed this or even intimated it.
No, what we discussed is you claiming Havoc is no more difficult that the entire rest of the game, which is absurd and not a matter of opinion.
If you’re going to try to police my participation in this topic, you might want to apply those same rules to like half the rest of this forum.
More ranks on top is an idea I haven’t heard. I like that, although doesn’t upping the difficulty of the top rank just make some of the lower ranks possibly relevant in a challenge context (for those clearing old H40?)
And as for not removing maps/modifiers, and instead adding to the pool/variety, I think everyone agrees on that:
But the gunner nerf sounds good (and was much requested), and something like the pacing changes (to fix the breaking of spawns) have been asked for by folks for ages.
Wahid is 100% right. Havoc is all about countering its modifiers with the meta buiilds, hence why it’s aritificial diffuculty. If you do this, it’s as easy as T5 Auric with many decent builds. If you don’t, it’s a slog.
There is something very sad in trying to appeal to the authority of the “skilled” players who want “hard” gamemods and trying to speak for them, yet most of those “skilled” players dunk on Havoc and consider it an imbalanced, boring and restrictive mess.
This kinda reminds me of those fake “hardcore” gamers from the HD2 community who were hyper fixated on the concept of “difficulty”, without understanding what makes the game truly hard. They argued against weapon and stratagem buffs and called skill issue (like you do lol) for pointing out that half of gear in the game is objectively inferior to the alternatives and defended literal bugs like enemy acid/flamethrowers/explosions dealing up to x6 damage because of the crappy code which made you take a separate damage instance for every limb hit, killing you in one frame.
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Utter nonsense to claim that Uprising is as hard as Havoc 40. Or even that Auric Damnation is as hard as H40.
The mechanics are different, the numbers are different.
It’s the hardest mode in the game, of course the meta builds are the easiest to win with.
Yes, you use meta builds to counter new “mechanics” and stat changes, then it becomes the same. If you genuinely believe that stuff like more hordes and bosses has any significant impact on the difficulty, compared to the Havoc-speficic modifiers, then I don’t know what to say except to repeat the you’re clearly very unexperienced and have no idea what you’re talking about.
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Nonsense. If this were true, I’d be cruising through high Havoc with meta builds.
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Checkmate!
I think Havoc was a waste of time because a mode for the sweats already existed - Auric. That the players got so OP that Auric was no longer hard is the problem that Fatshark failed to address.
And instead of fixing that, and nerfing players, they put a ton of time and effort, neglecting new content and cool stuff they could’ve done instead, into creating a convoluted time-waster of a new mode for containing the sweats.
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