For 2 seconds I genuinely thought you met some toxic players in Havoc, which still would barely scratch the surface of who plays that game mode.
Anyway back to the topic. We are the players who have played Dartktide for thousand of hours and Vermintide games for thousand more. The reason why we talk about balance is because we understand the game, often at unreasonable level of detail and because we genuinely care about it, despite at times having a love & hate relationship with some of its aspect.
The last thing we want to see is a change to the Tide games formula, which would turn the highest difficulty levels of the game into a snooze fest you can easily sail through by pressing W.
We are here to stay, you are a casual tourist, who seems to be a bit lost on the Internet.
I find it funny how limited the OPs perspective is. This is us flogging a dead horse yet again.
The game offers several base difficulty game modes, on the top of 40 levels of Havoc which does NOT cater to casual players. Top game difficulty ARE for the people who enjoy challenge and that pain the OP mentions.
How hard is that to understand? 80% of the game difficulties make you feel like a god, so plenty of space for tourists.
Also AGAIN, no one forces you to play above whatever difficulty you are comfortable with. No one forces you to play Damnation, Auric or Havoc. I play Havoc quite a bit, but if I’m tired or cannot be bother to find a group, I just play some oh god…“casual” Auric games, and simply have some fun.
This should be literally printed on the front page of the Havoc console: “This is a game mode designed for people who like suffering and self-improvement at the game”.
Sounds like OP wants the bragging rights of Havoc 40 without the learning curve mastery needed to get there.
It’s perfectly fine to stay in Damnation, Auric if that’s where a player is competent and comfortable. That’s where I stay, it’s plenty enough of a challenge when the majority of the team is not using broken classes and weapons. (Catachan Devil Claw, Heavy Sword, Electrokinetic Staff etc as examples of non OP weapons).
have you considered that, rather then being toxic, they are just more knowledgeable about this specific game then you are owing to meany hours playing it? It’s not toxic to point out mistakes based on a lack of knowledge, that’s how one gets better.
If a weapon isn’t viable it’s typically not very fun to use. Ogryn and Arbites being above the other classes is just a fact. I get where you’re coming from honestly but this is kind of a non-issue.
i’ve yet to play havoc since i wasn’t around when it launched and i’ve only been playing again since the arbites release. i tried queuing up for it last week but every time it said i was accepted, and i confirmed it via the pop-up prompt, nothing happened lol
Which part? That people who invested 1000s of hours in the game are more likely to stay and know anything about the game and care to balance it?
Or that the OP likely got burnt in a Havoc game by some random and came here to proclaim that everyone who plays Havoc must clearly be toxic, because of their limited experience?
But you are right, we should totally respect an opinion of a Sunday Joe who writes we shouldn’t discuss how to change / balance x, y or z, because he is having fun and we are doing this because we are toxic. Talk about arrogance, eh?
But he’s not wrong tho. You have people who will say “yeah this game slaps” and invest only 100 hours than redirect their attention to another game.
The same people that can’t handle a discussion without being baised towards their favourite toy and being over emotional, and so they think everyone has a harmful agenda to destroy teir fun.
The sheer concept of some people look at the game as it’s a system and summary of mechanics, well it’s just alien to them it seems.
The same people throwing words like tryharders and sweatlords, despite it’s sweatords who make youtube guides, tutorials, being playtesters, and with some games become a member of dev team.
I think we need to start off by acknowledging that what is “fun” to people is not universal, both sides of the balance argument want the game to be more for them, we just don’t agree on what makes the game fun.
I’m not a high havoc player, I don’t have as much sustained free time for Tide games as I used to, but the game’s current state of balance makes any difficulty I want to play not terribly fun for me. The power level of the characters has had knock on effects that have fundamentally ruined the pacing of the game, and the gameplay has been simplified too much towards spamming overpowered abilities or attacks, and never meaningfully engaging with an enemy unless you’re facing ten of them.
The best thing that could happen for my enjoyment of the game is wide sweeping and severe nerfs to players paired with significant toning down of enemy spawns.
Obviously I appreciate that is contrary to what a lot of people want. I do think having played the Tide series since VT1 I probably have a better idea what gives this series a unique draw than many, but that doesn’t really change the fundamental ideological difference here. I just don’t see the fun in over tuning the players and how that can possibly lead to a more engaging gameplay experience.
I think the comments accusing one portion of the community to be more toxic than others unfounded from my own experience, but more importantly it distracts from any possible meaningful conversation about balance, so I don’t intend to engage on that point further.
They hate V1,2 because they don’t undertsand it and barely played. To understand how things work you need to invest time.
The most common thing those people bring is “V2 is slow” wich is a conclusion you don’t need a lot of brain cells to make.
Meanwhile, V2 melee has more depth, because dodge isn’t that strong, attack speed isn’t that high, and so most weapons have a window when enemies can hit you, wich leads to the fact defensive moves matter much more in V2 - block and shove. Wich leads towards you have more options, more dynamic and unique situations.
And then there are stuff like THP vs toughness. THP being temporary means you both need to be more aggressive to farm it and more careful at the same time for not loosing even more green HP.
When someone says “i hate” it almost always can be ignored. Cause it’s not an argumented, rationalized look at how mechanics work. It’s a first impression.
