Dont see bad sides to go full defensive when u fight nurgle.
I think the bad side is that other builds can’t compete so now you have no variety. I would rather that builds have less influence over the success of the mission, so that 4 good players can have a good time no matter what they run. Sure some strategies will always be better but I want them to be at least in the same ballpark loosely for variety without making it a total ironman ballache.
That would require the game to be fundamentally balanced first though
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I haven’t had the time to play a ton of Havoc, and the little that I have played I did at work on a horrendously bad connection with randoms who I guess were partied up and invited me after an Auric Maelstrom. I didn’t find it terribly difficult. I’ll see what the 30+ fuss is about the next time I play Darktide, but I tend to find people hype up the difficulty/skill required in Darktide a lot, so I really doubt I’m going to have my socks blown off.
I know people tend to bust out the really busted builds for Havoc which hopefully gets the worst offenders nerfed into oblivion. We all know that Psyker cheese has been a problem for far too long, and no amount of difficulty increases will fix this without leaving everyone else behind.
I think the skill required is no bigger than the skill required to beat auric maelstroms without dying consistently. If you don’t get brained by melee elites or bosses on Aurics then you won’t get brained by them on Havoc, either. The actual limiting factor is that the shooters get so absurd that it’s no longer really a matter of skill dealing with them, but a matter of either:
- crutching on defensive abilities and the very high mobility weps that let you deal with the ranged and advance on them
- getting lucky and getting good maps that don’t spawn gunners and shooters in very bad positions
- if you get neither then you must painstakingly spend 15 minutes on a singular map segment pulling all the gunners out somehow because you literally cannot approach certain map spots when there’s 10 pus hardened gunners from behind a chest high fence platform overlooking a large area you need to cross
Obviously 1 is the least painful. I’ve no doubt that 2 and 3 work and plenty of people will eventually record “no crutches” Havoc clears (Reginalds 10’000 hour gang got quite close), but the question that gets relevant here is wether that’s actually fun gameplay for anyone. In the latest Reginald vid you can see a clip of it, 4 Ogryns just sitting in a corner waiting until gunners randomly stop firing and move in. Is that actually well designed? I think it’s stupid and anti-fun.
I think none of the 3 options in particular require more skill out of an individual, just progressively more patience. That’s why I think the difficulty design is misguided and falls flat.
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I just lost a clandestium gloriana havoc 22 mission and id like to set the scene as to why. Im hosting the mission and we have 3 players in the strike team and someone, not me, let a veteran in who had somehow cleared a havoc 20 so they let him join our strike team. As soon as we get to the ready up screen we quickly realize the veteran has absolutely no clue what hes doing. He was playing with kraks, no survivalist, a chain sword with horrible perks and blessings and a recon lasgun with 16% damage. He immediately goes down as soon as the map starts and leaves the game and we proceeded to get shredded by gunners instantly and lost the map. To insinuate that the only reason people cant climb havoc ranks is nothing more than a skill issue when there are malice players who have absolutely no clue how to craft or generally how to play the game infesting havoc is quite hilarious. I also think its bs that even though im hosting Im not the only person who can decide who gets into the strike team because I was not going to let that vet in in the first place. Furthermore its an even bigger problem that you cant kick people from the ready screen and even if they are an absolutely terrible player far out of their league you have to start the map anyway even though its a guaranteed loss before the map even begins. So now in havoc we have to deal with the worst of the worst malice noobs being allowed into our games and were just expected to carry them through the hardest map in the game but youre saying thats only a skill issue on my part and not a havoc problem or a party finder problem? Yeah ok dude whatever you say. If I want to play with terrible players who dont know the first thing about how to craft or play darktide in general I’ll just go play damnation all day or better yet auric or maelstrom because they have infested every difficulty in the game at this point.
Can u eat soup with fork? Certainly, but its very unbalanced.
Yeah okay but if you’re going with that analogy then some of the builds are forks, some are knives, some are spoons. The basegame is a meal with soup and some meat and a salad. Now the fork, knife and spoon all have their place.
here comes Havoc and suddenly the soup must be eaten or you fail your dinner. Of course you’d take the spoon, but why is the soup so important? Why isn’t it balanced properly? Why isn’t the thing balanced so I don’t need multiple spoons to have a good time or the soup kills me? I probably won’t go back to this restaurant.
And if this analogy seems stupid to you, you came up with it!
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Look. U have very big meal for 4 people. U NEED to consume all stuff in that meal or all will die.
There is peoples with only knifes, only forks, only spoons. U need to decide who eat what more effectively.
Unbalance persist in every aspect of it, psykers have magick bubble and endless flames to burn little heretics, zealots have book of jokes and abilities to kill big heretics, veteran have ability to delete specialists and some big bois, also can “loot that child body (meme)” for extra ammo for all team. Ogryn can stun and kill VERY big bois faster then others. We all not equal in our nature itself.
Havoc is just gamemode where certain builds do better. That is.
When i play auric maelstorms i never go bubble, always scryer.
On high lvl havoc i always go bubble, not scryer. Its ok.
Its just normal. We cant shoot prey without proper weapon.
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That’s the issue though you don’t actually need to consume all the meal, just the soup. The melee elites, the hordes, the specials, the bosses, they’re all a joke. Only the shooters are really dangerous. The only fail state in Havoc 40 for a team that isn’t newbs is “you didn’t deal with the shooters” and right now the only way to reliably deal with the havoc 40 shooters are these 3 I mentioned up here Havoc 40: You have skill issue - #45 by Murderer
I think Havoc has potential if they change the balance so other strategies, builds and weps have a reason to exist, too
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Gears 5 had something like this at launch where every enemy did so much damage regardless of player build that the entirety of Master level Horde became an exercise in camping and spamming. It wasn’t until close range classes actually got massive defensive buffs and armor regen for close range kills that the game became interesting and the skill ceiling actually went up for them because movement and aiming became relevant again.
Turtling for excessive periods of time in an action game is never a good thing. Bigger number harder is a noob trap for developers, and I would have thought Fatshark to be above this. As I’ve said, I haven’t played the later levels of Havoc for myself yet, so I’ll reserve final judgment.
Just to be entirely fair, Havoc is pretty well balanced if you do make use of voc and chorus spam with 4 good players, it’s spicy but not really that hard, you do have to play together, there’s no solo hero stuff like on aurics. It’s just not really enjoyable for any other tactics approach. The meta is just too rigid.
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Shii call me uninformed but did they remove invulnerability on zealot slide from a year ago+?
Edit : Mb mb, remove dmg reduction on all slides.
Even when it was there it only mattered to melee hits. Slide has always been ranged attack immune for all classes, so it was pretty over hyped to begin with IMO (also applied as toughness damage reduction so not at full toughness meant still taking HP damage from melee attacks during slide).
Anyway yeah Zealot is very durable but that has nothing to do with slide (at least not in terms of giving him an edge over other classes).
Sliding near melee enemies is just dumb unless youre sliding away from a sniper shot anyway. But shii im jus tryna say they gotta remove that ranged attack immunity on slide. Thats dumb af.
But keep the dodge breaking the aim of ranged enemies. The beta started off being unable to dodge ranged attacks at all and that was super oppressive.
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Well yeah ofc, sliding is dodging since it isnt like we can slide down hill or slide forever. The NO DMG ON RANGED ATTACKS WHILE SLIDING though is absurd. Just like that all caps.
Imagine breaking off aim, and STILL have an invulnerability redundancy. Well shoot, dont gotta slide at the right times ig.
The most ridiculous thing about this game has always been the characters sliding everywhere. Just casually sliding up a flight of stairs, 10/10 physics
“If fire can slide up stairs (which it can), you can slide up stairs.”
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It’s fun from a gameplay angle but when you think about it, it really is one of the dumbest things. Especially cause the ogryn slide isn’t even a real dive slide, he just gets on his knees
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Ye sliding upstairs is wild, at least reduce its efficacy when doing so or completely remove it as well.
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