Grind to win?

Here’s a suggestion that I decided to throw out and see what people think of it. And perhaps make FS think about it as an alternative to their game design.

That is that instead of the dreaded “pay to win” with super good stuff behind a pay wall, which some people fear will come. I thought that I would suggest that for every level beyond 35, you get +1 Hero Power. Thus meaning that if you grind, you’ll become stronger and stronger with the possibility to eventually becoming very powerful.

I realize that this will in time, for the dedicated players with no girlfriend, life, work or any other such distractions (:P), you can become ungodly powerful, which means that you should probably jump into the Weaves contest and compete against fellow players when you’ve gotten your main into an ungodly Hero Power level. Or Cata level Deeds which should be added.

And in my opinion it would add that as you grind you can see how your character improves and so motivate both keep going for a stronger character to move on to even more difficult challenges, and also that FS can create more difficult high tier challenges and content for those of us who possess to purity of purpose in our lives to reach high levels of Hero Power.

I realize from a balancing issue this could mean that some characters will end up so that they can essentially blast through entire Cata levels on their own. But in reflection of the joys of seeing your hard grinding leave something concrete for you to enjoy, that’s a minor issue. Besides if FS would also add and option to re-set characters back to Lvl 1 so we can start all over if we’ve reached a point where there’s no challenges, this could potentially keep us entertained for some time.

No.

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No.

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Nuh-uh.

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Well it was worth a shot. :wink:

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I’ve thought about the possibility of adding small incremental stats increases in the endgame quite a bit.

There’s always the danger of making it feel like a mandatory grind to play in the highest difficulties, because that’s how people’s minds work. And even with the capped powerlevels for difficulties already being a thing, it becomes a balancing nightmare to make meaningful endgame challenges when you have to consider such a much wider range of potential player power.

However, if we had something like an extended Athanor for all game modes, I think it wouldn’t break the game to extend it with some spread out bonus stats that give some incremental increases for non-critical stuff.
Think being able to unlock small amounts of ammo increase, curse resistance, hp etc… maybe some of the less popular properties reach numbers that could make them useful, but nothing that could end up in big inflated numbers or make you tear through enemies.
It would still be something that makes you see some small progress even after hundreds of hours and having all the max level characters, red items etc.

I fully understand people who don’t want that because even the existing difficulty-gating and amount of grind is too much for them and the psychological implications of “not being at max stats”, but I personally wouldn’t mind it within limits.

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Power creep is bad.

Aaaaanddd… I’ve just dated myself.

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Vermintide is an rpg so power creep is fine.

edit; rpg

Its not mmo

It was a meme :’(
insta answer feelsbad :cry:
should of added an “eks di”

eks di

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You said it best yourself.

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This would make balance so much harder to achieve than it already is, and it would ruin the actual point of endgame content, which is to be challenging. Vermintide has never focused on RPG elements and frankly this idea is so hugely problematic and incoherent with the actual gameplay focus of the game it’s really hard for me to see how you thought this was a good idea for even a second.

Sorry to be harsh but this is an absolute game ruining idea.

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You’re on the right track but you got it all ackwards. Every +level you obtain will reduce your total hero power in adventure maps and weaves by one or one tenth. There should obviously also be leaderboards for soloing a cats map with the highest power debuff. If you want to reset you power debuff you have to ask for a full reset of your account.

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How do you see VT2 as “pay to win” at the moment? Some of the good weapons are parts of DLCs, but they’re by no means instant-wins or so disgustingly overpowered they are necessary tools that can’t be replaced with something else.

I’m happy with the model they have now (barring cata being a paid-for thing at the price point; being bundled with the rest of the expansion), and agree with the rest of the comments that the power creep this suggestion would give would pretty much nullify any difficulty.

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Well, I guess my idea didn’t fly but I don’t feel any shame in suggesting it. There needs to be some kind of thing to motivate people to grind and keep grinding and while this didn’t fly, it was in my opinion worth a shot to suggest.

Its not mmo

No, thus I don’t feel that power creep is really such a huge problem because its primary a co-op.

You said it best yourself.

Like so often, I have to do what you cannot.

This would make balance so much harder to achieve than it already is, and it would ruin the actual point of endgame content, which is to be challenging. Vermintide has never focused on RPG elements and frankly this idea is so hugely problematic and incoherent with the actual gameplay focus of the game it’s really hard for me to see how you thought this was a good idea for even a second.

Sorry to be harsh but this is an absolute game ruining idea.

My belief is that grinding is at the core of the game and since there’s been some posts and threads about how to make that hour-after-hour-after-hour grind into something that motivates people I decided to suggest a reward system where the benefits feel tangible and isn’t re-colored cosmetics but drives people to keep grinding and playing.

I however recognize your critic that it would make endgame content harder to balance. I did for example offer the idea of Cata deeds and also the ability to re-set progression if you want to start over again. Same could be that you have a matchmaking where you don’t play with people who have to much more Hero Power than you so that you are on level.

You’re on the right track but you got it all ackwards. Every +level you obtain will reduce your total hero power in adventure maps and weaves by one or one tenth. There should obviously also be leaderboards for soloing a cats map with the highest power debuff. If you want to reset you power debuff you have to ask for a full reset of your account.

You have our permission to withdraw.

How do you see VT2 as “pay to win” at the moment? Some of the good weapons are parts of DLCs, but they’re by no means instant-wins or so disgustingly overpowered they are necessary tools that can’t be replaced with something else.

I’m happy with the model they have now (barring cata being a paid-for thing at the price point; being bundled with the rest of the expansion), and agree with the rest of the comments that the power creep this suggestion would give would pretty much nullify any difficulty.

Its not at the moment but I’ve heard people express fears that it might turn that way, which I also mentioned in my post, so I thought to suggest an idea would be focused on giving incentive to keep grinding. Namely to get more powerful and be able to feel more powerful as you put in more hours in the game. Thus a reward and incentive to keep grinding the core of the game.

Game works mechanically fine without endless difficulty scaling / powercreep. Therefore adding it is not needed.

What it needs is more missions / story. Perhaps I am biased being a Warhammer fan but honestly the game is beautiful the voice acting and dialogue between the characters is fun and nice, but some more missions that actually continued their story after the events of Skittergate

Id rather wait for more Content than just have numerical grind or artificial content

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Oh, I was certain you weren’t serious. Maybe you can find some kind of god mode among the mods?

Think I mentioned it in a post about what I’d like to see in vermintide but I think it would be fun to have some kind of visual indication of your true level with a character. Rather than grinding for a buff that can never be balanced and would go against the core gameplay, grind for a cosmetic to show off your lack of a life :smiley:.

Could be a series of portraits that unlock every 50 levels or something.

This idea would ruin the game. I dislike hyperbole, but in this case it’s not hyperbole, because this would literally. ruin. the. game. Vermintide is fun because of the challenge and gameplay. Nothing about its current aspects you could consider “grind” - be it levelling and aquiring weapons, unlocking stuff, collecting Deeds, etc. - is by any stretch the fun part about this game. Gameplay, however, is the endgame and the goal of this game combined instead. The grind only gets in the way of that! And this atrocious idea would ruin that gameplay through a balance nightmare situation, in return for more of the unfun part!

There is simply not a single positive aspect I can see in your idea. As I read it, it struck me as the worst idea I read on this forum, ever. And the more I think about, the worse it even gets!

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