Imagine all the bosses having meaningfull mechanics where you have to pay attention to and engage in (like nurgloth fire rings), instead of just killing the boss in his wind up animation. Boss killers could still kill him faster, but atleast make them engage in the fight and make it feel like a final boss. Some final boss events are literally over faster then just normal objective events.
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that would be ideal for sure
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My point exactly. If you have a halfdecent GK in your team you know the boss is dead in 10 seconds or something. Classes people compare GK with (Shade e.g.) pay significant drawbacks and I doubt that shade can oneshot bosses in this patch.
GK feels too imbalanced.
Monster - dead. Patrol - dead. Boss - dead.
You get it so much easier that it actually feels more like p2w since heās behind a paywall.
I agree and disagree with this point.
On the one hand if you make it an MMO-style battle I donāt think itāll fit the gameplay we have atm.
On the other hand an idea that certain abilities would deal less damage to monsters or bosses seems unfair to me. Thatās why I strongly think that Virtue of Knightly Temper should be nerfed and buffed at the same time: it is unfair that it does less dmg to biguns and it is unfair that it that it feels so OP.
Are you saying GK can one-shot monsters and Lords? I havenāt seen that. Also, what drawbacks are there to Shades or BHs ult? If you want you can have guaranteed invis after ult as Shade and BH has a ranged damage dealing option.
Also, if you really want to hurt something, both Shade and BH can add more damage multipliers than GK due to talents or simply just because they have access to ranged (Hunter, Barrage).
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Just for clarity:
Normal monsters in maps would be enough with certain mechanics (bile troll, mino super aggressive).
Lords would have a bit more mechanics ,ofcourse not to the degree of nurgloth, but also not like spinemangler.
Boss killers would still have more boss dps then other careers, they would just not be able to oneshot a monster or a boss, mechanics can achieve that (bile troll forced downtime)
He is definitely one of the boss killers.
I have had cata runs with several anti-boss builds where bosses or monsters would die within 10 seconds and I donāt like it, but boss killer is one of the roles certain classes identify with so I donāt think they should take that away.
Instead, boss HP should get buffed.
G(ee)K is totally fine how he is now!
Play on Legend or Cata Dude. Grail has one ((Killing Bosses) Job and he does it perfectly well, yes. Okay maybe killing Elites aswell!
He has unlike other Classes/ Careers you mentioned and Compare to older Builds of the Game, is that they had Ranged and very Powerful at that and he doesnt!
So no, hes totally fine, except his missing Flail and Shield!
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Aside from Bodvarr and Skarrik (I think gatekeeper is fine since itās a long map and thereās the ārealā boss fight yet to come) I think boss hp is mostly fine. The boss-killer classes make the random spawns and full bosses a smoother experience rather than trivializing them. The problem is if in a QP if you end up with comps that can have no real difficulty in the rest of the content but then the boss takes forever. Just buffing boss hp(again except for Bodvarr and Skarrik who would still be tolerable with some sort of buff) would make the issue even worse.
On the subject of GK, I donāt see an issue in regards to his performance being too strong against bosses.
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GK has basicly nothing to do with this,vanila (Helmgart) story bosses need a rework/rebalance. They can be destroyed in mere seconds with the proper setup already even on Cata, regardless of whether you have a GK or not.
The only exception is Rasknitt (Skittergate) who for some reason has more health alone than a Steam Tank Division combined, despite being a rug wearing caster. He also has at least what we could call āphaseā.
Otherwise,Helmgart Lords have no true phases (other than certain special attacks and scripted events) and thus can be bursted down easily, also they are suspectible to stun/stagger.
They made a good example with Nurgloth tho. Proper phases (turns invincible in between), changes attack method accordingly, and cannot be stun locked.
As for monsters, if you have a good dedicated boss killer (Beam BW, BH, Shade) it will die fast already.
As a kind of BH main, I occasionally made people laugh with how fast armored scripted boss fights end long before Grail Knight. Itās not GKās fault.
Something needs to be changed about how these lords work WITHOUT turning them into eternal slogfests for parties that donāt have such a burst dps character (they already kinda are)
As much as I dislike Nurglothās last phase, the boss fight has generally the right idea along with Burble and Rasknitt. Prevent extreme damage spikes and force the players to deal with more than just the Lordās head hitbox.
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To my knowledge all bosses and Lords have some level of damage reduction. This could be increased and/or perhaps introduce a damage capping mechanic for bosses and Lords that simply does not allow the player to deal more than X damage within 0.something seconds. I think this would work best if the damage was % based rather than a flat number.
Also, I do not know the time interval between GKās ultās first and second hits while dual daggers count as 2 hits and the same goes for BHās Double Shotted, hence limiting damage per hit rather than a short time period would leave us with outliers.
I think a lot of things trivialize lords and bosses, and GK is just the newest offender, but really he isnāt that incredible. The double hit is nice, and provides a bit of stagger but in terms of raw power, it falls behind a lot of other options, BH burst, Hagbane Waystalker, Shade, potentially even Sienna, who mostly just has a safer way to deal damage / satgger (currently). TL;DR its a good active ability but nothing game breaking that falls out of line when compared to other stuff already in game.
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They arenāt called bosses, they are called monsters. They are big elites. The bosses are Burblespue, Skarrik, Bƶdvarr and Ratsknitt (+Deathrattler and the gatekeeper, aka big CW into spawn).
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Iād disagree.
BH - I agree can be a total beast. BH pays by being a glass cannon for that though. Also, you have to have good aim though - headshotting stuff isnāt easy here imo.
Hagbane waystalker - sure it is ok at killing bosses. However if you take it with you on mission you are as good as melee. Because youāre either constantly saving ammo for bosses or killing bosses with melee because youāve wasted all arrows on the horde/specials. Frankly I have no respect towards hagbane - low damage, no ammo, blehā¦
Shade shure can deal damage: but she pays by being too frail. Quite often after you slag the boss with your ult it just turns around and slaps you on the ground making you a burden not a dps.
Well, Sienna is a total badassā¦ if you can aim though.
Having compared all those guys Iāve come to the conclusion: every class and profession can kick ass.
However only GK can do it with little to none drawbacks.
This might sound offensive: if you think that, youāve never played with that setup long enough.
It is by no means whatsoever āblehā. Running out of ammo is a non-issue (Unless you shoot at anything that moves, including teammates). If you take Hagbane, you take the ammo ult. Thereās no going around this. And if you do, you donāt have ammo problems. Every special/elite counts seperately. 3 SV? 90% ammo replenished. 1 SV, 2 gutter runners and a ratling gun? 100% (120%) ammo replenished. If you combine it with bloodshot you donāt even have to use more than 2 arrows per special on legend.
I think you are forgetting the most important part all those other careers still have over GK: they have a ranged option, and in 3 out of those 4, they even use this option to deal their damage to the boss out of his reach, relatively safe. And the shade can go invisible, with an option to leave the immediate vicinity of the boss. The GK can only stand there and take it. No extra dodge range, no damage reduction, no absurd atk speed buffs like the other melee oriented careers (for quicker animations ā a bit safer block canceling), just more hp. Seems fair to me.
Not quite so. Boss is an ambiguous term for both, and seperately they are called āmonstersā (because of their armor type, but most use the term boss for them, rolls easier of the tongue) and ālordsā for the named bosses.
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Thats why you play waystalker, you have like 4 ammo sustain options, just using the ammo regen on active + her passively larger quiver means you should never run dry on hagbane ammo. Also, low damage? Wut??
Headshotting bosses is pretty easy, the hitboxes on everything but spawn are huge.
How does GK differ in this regard? Just his higher health pool? Without damage mitigation it wont matter, on cata or cata + if you get hit with that turn around youāre still screwed.
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Gk is greatā¦if you can aim though.
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āGrail Knight trivializes all monsters and lordsā
Thread below that:
āGrail Knight by comparison is a weak heroā
So which is it? I donāt see an issue here because shade exists and no one complains about her.
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