Yeah definitely CC’s monsters, as I said.
2 Likes
The CC on Bosses is exactly my point. It’s safer to use on Bosses and benefits the entire team, rather than just stealthing as Shade.
- And not as easily if they’re out of reach of her attack, where GK gets a either one attack followed by another, or a wide cleave that can potentially kill 3, and w/e small enemies are about.
None of you will address the fact that it’s on a 40 second (reduced by damage) CD, and doesn’t take much thought.
The majority of his burst comes from his Ult, outside of using Exe Sword, which isn’t mandatory.
Because it stops the Boss from going on anyone else completely, rather than having the clunkiness of an invis that makes the Boss do a 180 degree hit. He can either solo the Boss for a long duration with a Potion, or CC him for the whole team, which also has the utility of stopping attacks and disables from Bosses. He can also knock them off ledges, which she can’t.
Staggering the Boss out of range is just something you plan for. 
Put him in a corner and spam, while your friends clear Horde. This hasn’t been a problem for my group.
It does though, because now you benefit from Regen. My point wasn’t that if you don’t get 10-15% CDR he’s suddenly the worst Career in the world, it was that the Ult is strong and has an RNG chance of becoming even more silly.
What?
He has increased Stamina Regen, you can take any Weapon and spam push-attacks until the cows come home.
Or the Weapons you mentioned, and 1H Mace, and Push-Attack spamming with Dual Wield.
We’re playing Handmaiden GK and w/e else joins, and he’s got unlimited Stamina, makes enormous amounts of space and safely cleaves Hordes down.
That’s the point of him. He clears the Elites with ease, so that noone else has to worry about them. He needs support in other ways, but also gives the quest buffs to his team, so that they can help him out too. If you play him with a Special killer and something with Horde clear, he’ll steam roll the entire map.
Him having a specific role, which he excels at compared to most Careers is fine.
I completely disagree with this. Shade and WHC require more specific positioning play, while GK has Kruber’s Weapons and the Stamina Regen Talent which also grants Push Angle. He’s safer while doing his job than those two.
Inb4 Shade is invisible. She also needs to be behind the enemy, and so is at more risk of taking damage if you make a mistake.
GK, however has the pretty basic playstyle of Merc/FK, and can face tank Hordes even if he doesn’t clear them super fast.
I don’t understand the problem then. From my experience, he’s been beating Shades, WHCs, Pyro, and Slayers in damage, or just buffing them to do their jobs. It’s not a single player game, and he’s playing the role of Support/Elite/Boss killer, and does it just fine.
Not at all. His health pool means he’s more durable for sure. There’s AoE damage, unlucky/laggy hits, Disablers and Boss damage. The more of it he can take, the safer he is. It’s all supposed to even out. That’s why he does so much damage and doesn’t have damage reduction. He’s not supposed to feel super agile or super durable, but durable enough, like WHC and Shade, while still able to put out lots of damage.
There’s nothing wrong with using his HP as an indicator of his durability and playstyle, compared to Shade and WHC. It means his skill floor is lower than theirs, but he still has a big impact.
He’s literally one of the only Careers it’s worth running on-kill THP on, without risking Elite drought, because he can just get his Ult up again and one-shot some in a shorter time than most.
2 Likes
So if other people take care of 60-80% of the map, he steamrolls the entire map? I feel like we have similar experiences with GK, but its just a matter of how much you value elite killing.
Zealot, WHC, BH, Huntsman, Shade, Waystalker, Bolt BW, etc can also kill all the elites, but without needing to be carried in every other aspect of the game.
This I completely disagree with. Shade is insanely safe. WHC is also safe because if you get stuck somewhere you can just press F and reposition. Also, you mentioned how stam regen is stagger/control and WHC has even more stam regen. I disagree with that assessment, but if you’re going to be consistent then you have to add that to WHC toolkit as well.
That’s not true. Shade doesn’t need to walk into a horde to do damage. In fact, that’s not even advisable.
That’s an issue of player skill. You can play IB and beat WHC’s pyros and shades in damage. That doesn’t mean IB has a good dps toolkit.
The problem is, you’re not taking DR stacking into account. For example, with the 20% DR talent, shade has 150 effective hp as well as the escape ult. With barkskin up, both GK and shade have 300 effective hp. So in actual gameplay, GK has effective hp similar to shade. That’s not a career I would say is super tanky. Slayer for example, has 250 effective hp with Grimnir up and 750 with barkskin up. So saying GK has 180 and Slayer has 150 would be wildly misleading.
4 Likes
Pretty much. I play WS or HM and end up just killing Specials for the map, I love it. He does most of the other damage.
He’s not that weak against Hordes. Jesus Christ.
This really isn’t a huge issue. You just say ‘we need Special killing or Horde clear’ on VOIP and the problem is solved.
Fine. He also has no DMGR. The Ult is on a long Cooldown, unless you play the CDR build. His Weapons have less Stagger in general. He doesn’t gain Push Angle. He’s more about out-killing than surviving, whereas GK is a mix of both.
And as for Shade, it depends if you want to get the most out of her or not. Solo play in sections will make you deal a hell of a lot more damage if you chain stealths and go behind Hordes. Doesn’t work for Cata+, but certainly works for Cata. On Legend I would just run Movement Speed on Crit anyway.
My point was that he’s doing enough damage to top and to deal with a lot of enemies. I don’t see a problem with him as a DPS because of this.
Both Grimnir and Shade’s DMGR are Active though, and aren’t always up in every situation. The playstyles are also different and require more skill than spamming push-attacks and pushes. Not to mention he can take a Shield Weapon and CC Chaos Warriors, while also using Stagger THP. whch is busted.
Also my the main reason for my initial post was that he wasn’t weak compared to most other Careers. I think he does his job and the Cooldown of his Ult that’s able to kill 2-3 Elite each time, if you’re clever, is more than enough to make him compete.
Better or worse for w/e reason, I think he does his job and picking around him is a viable way to combat any perceived weaknesses.
The funny thing is, I expected Slayer and GK combo to be the worst you could have, and it ended up being one of the better combos I’ve seen with him. You just clear everything out and then the Specials become easier to deal with. For most Specials, you can just stack up and bait them in anyway.
1 Like
Well in Legend and Cata no-one is really tanky, and the whole point of the game, regardless which character you’re playing, is to not take damage. IMO, tankiness as such is overrated.
Î This is very true though.
His shield is insane at controlling anything (push - light is a continuous shield bash), and that makes him someone who tanks for the entire team, in addition to being decent at dealing with elites (push attack - heavy).
The Bretonian Longsword is exceptional at horde clearing (light - light - push, repeat). It’s good at elite clearing (push attack - heavy - light for a triple overhead).
Exe is obviously good, but I like the Bretonian Longsword better now because of the dodge and the riposte.
I have to agree with Sleezy on that one though, I don’t feel the stagger as much as I feel the cleave on the Longsword.
Also, do you build crit chance and crit power on the exe with Knightly Temper ?
Also interesting, I grew used to totally disregard thp on kill as it isn’t as reliable as on hit. Thanks for that thought.
1 Like
To be fair, everyone can kill elites… Everyone also has a niche (except for Waystalker who’s just plain OP IMO) and that is fine. You’re saying GK’s niche is too restrictive, Kitten’s saying it isn’t. I see both your points, but I think you’re not seeing what Kitten does ; you’re seeing disatvantages she’s telling you can be overcome.
WHC’s 3 minutes cd is the longest F cooldown in the game if I’m not mistaken. It’s not like Handmaiden where you can reposition every 15-20 seconds ; I take the point though.
Also Shade is not that safe, one bad positioning and you’re basically dead - assuming you use your ult to engage. Low HP alongside Dual Daggers which have 4 stamina usually makes for low survivability.
After reading the rest, most of what I’m thinking has been said.
1 Like
It’s actually not a shield bash. It’s a blunderbuss bash 
No I see exactly what Kitten is saying. My point is that I understand the disadvantages can be overcome. Other classes just don’t have as many disadvantages.
3 Likes
It’s 90 seconds or 1.5 minutes. Same as merc. Longest CD in the game is 120 seconds.
True, just checked in-game. I was reading outdated info.
The only thing arguably overpowered with GK, are the quests. Considering how a talent row is often “5% crit chance”, when he can basically give the entire team 5% crit chance x3. The quests alone are like 12 talent points, which is insane.
Imagine if everyone actually talked about his gameplay experience, instead of reading other comments and jumping on a bandwagon armed with some gathered outdated online data.
Whats was the last time you took a look at WHC? 5% crit chance buff for the whole team, basically constantly on cata. 20% damage vs Elites and monsters for the whole team.
How do GKs random duties compare to that? They dont, because its random as hell what you get.
Also, if there actually is crit chance for some duty, I, in 100 games, did not once encounter that. Its CDR for Monsters, 5% Attack Speed for Specials, 10% Power for Elites, 10% DR for Tomes, and HP reg for a grim.
Whats was the last time you took a look at WHC? 5% crit chance buff for the whole team, basically constantly on cata. 20% damage vs Elites and monsters for the whole team.
How do GKs random duties compare to that? They dont, because its random as hell what you get.
Yes, it’s 5% crit “basically constantly”, but not constantly. There’s a difference. There’s 20% damage to elites/specials/monsters, but not 10% power to everything at all times without pinging. You are kind of undermining your own point, by making WHC seem obscene, when GK’s buffs are comparable/arguably better.
It’s not really “random as hell” when you can get 3 buffs, with only a total of 5. The only arguably “bad” one is the cooldown reduction one, with the healing buff being broken, while the rest are great.
Also, if there actually is crit chance for some duty, I, in 100 games, did not once encounter that. Its CDR for Monsters, 5% Attack Speed for Specials, 10% Power for Elites, 10% DR for Tomes, and HP reg for a grim.
I never said it was, but I said it was comparable to it.
I was on my phone, but sure. 90 seconds - whatever cooldown you get from attacking still is a once-a-horde or once-a-monster ult though, so I think my point stands.
Nah WHC’s utility is obscene. GK’s quests are so too, in the sense that they are more tangible, and give really nice constant buffs to the team.
To be fair, if you’re taking 40% cooldown on hitting 10+ enemies it can definitely be up more than once per horde.
2 Likes
This is another gameplay void statement. WHC recharges his ult faster in combat because his hits grant double the recharge on hit. That paired with his attack speed and cleave on certain weapons make it more than likely to be up twice a wave. Apart from that its rather weird to compare a careers skill like Animosity that delivers what you want every time to this:
Killing power is over the top as clear as day.
1 Like
Idk man. Zealot, Mercenary, Ironbreaker, Slayer, Foot Knight, even Battle Wizard feel very tanky in Cataclysm
3 Likes
There should be invulnerability while using ult, he can get killed instantly
All buffs/rewards are useful, it depends on other characters and builds and situation if one is more useful than other, but is really well done.
looks is badass
sword+shield should hit enemies properly, hold block+hold attack the sword won’t hit enemies
this should be fixed
Ult is really useful against armoreds and monsters if you you can land the second strike
His Swords aren’t built for it, but can make it with the Stamina Regen Talent. Spam pushing Hordes to death.
My friend plays him, and I’ve been playing Special Killer/Horde clear/Horde CC for him.
His build and comments on it:
Weapons: 5% crit/block cost on both melee, dual wield and ex sword
Neck: BCR/20% HP (Barkskin)
Charm: AS/Chaos or AS/Infantry (decanter)
Trinket: Crit/Stam
Talents: 2/1/2/1/1/3
“timed blocks aren’t reliable, and 30% stam regen is overkill, when you kill things instantly”
He’ll switch depending on what I play. WHC with CDR build for 60% CDR before attacks, he’ll play the Crit build instead.
HM, he’ll use more push-attacks in general, so might switch to the Stam Regen.
And obviously if you have low Boss killing, you just take the other Ult options.
I can give you some other Career synergies if you want?
Nah WHC’s utility is obscene. GK’s quests are so too, in the sense that they are more tangible, and give really nice constant buffs to the team.
I never said they weren’t. The context of the post I replied to, implied that GK was weak (which you can also see from earlier posts). I made the argument that his buffs are comparable, if not better than WHC, and if he thought WHC was insane, then so must GK.
Fair enough. I don’t mind them as the character works well ; and even though this is more attributable to the team’s ranged careers not doing their job properly, I’ve finished multiple legend maps with the Specials killed green circle.
I dislike plain invulnerability. You can hold out the ult by holding F like Waystalker’s or BH’s, which can allow you to move back, prepare it, and move back in to use it.
However I raise you this : instead of invulnerability, why not give it the Bret Longsword riposte mechanic while it’s being held out ?
I don’t like the 1st level 25 as it doesn’t work intuitively. There is no buffer to it, so the 5 second timer resets every time you get hit and only gives you 50% of the last hit taken back as THP. The stamina regen is nice when out of position, as it allows you to push - shield bash more aggressively as you have no other way to escape. I guess not being out of position helps a lot here too… 
1 Like