Well clearly it just wasn’t hard enough on Veteran. Maybe you should try moving up to Champion smh my head
Yeah it’s not to say that having no ranged is not a disadvantage, the point is that it can be mitigated at least to a degree with special killers in your party.
Lmao. Good one.
I mean, I guess it’s impossible to prove that the ability to kill specials is better than buffs that equal basically 1 property. So we’ll have to agree to disagree.
Well the ability to kill specials doesn’t mean you get to kill all the specials obviously. Even if GK got a ranged weapon it wouldn’t turn him into a significant special killer. And I’d say the buffs are pretty impactful. Getting 10% DR, 5% speed and health regen for the entire party is pretty damn good. That 5% attack speed is already a talent for RV, which is uhhh, not saying much, but then GK’s 5% is for the entire party, when RV is just for himself.
Like I said. We’ll just have to agree to disagree. It’s impossible to prove one way or the other.
The main source of him being Support is those quests.
He’s also good at being a guarunteed frontline, and offering a good amount of Stagger.
Since people think the Stamina Talent is the only one in the world, it allows him to get more pushes off and at wider angles.
I still cannot understand how you can see it this way:
When his Ult is so good. It’s why you tried to dismiss me saying his Ult can kill 2-3 Elites in one hit with a single use on a 40 second Cooldown, reduced by attacking, by saying ‘who care about Elit lol’ (the two potentially being Chaos Warriors, if you’re running the double hit Talent).
That’s a huge amount of damage, and is strong against one of the only things the majority of the Careers in this game are weak against, which is Elite density.
Yeah, but if it’s doable with them and they also perform well for their role within that viability, then they’re fine.
The fact that we can’t quantify how much support he actually gives by giving all 4 of the team his quest buffs doesn’t mean you can’t think about how different builds where 5% AS or 10% power (vs all), can be night and day.
You’re still not making a good enough point as to why they even need to be compared. As I said, I think he’s fine, prove he’s not. Since you demanded I prove the opposite for you.
Attack speed buffs dont really become apparent till about 10%+ (where it becomes more noticeable on charged attacks), and then it really depends on what weapon you are using, for example swift slaying, which is considerably more attack speed only gives daggers a .xx% increase on lights due to the already quick speed of their weapons. [quote=“Kitten, post:85, topic:40068”]
and they also perform well
[/quote]
Everything “performs well” by your definition. Every melee weapon bonks rats. Whelp, guess they are all perfectly fine, since you can beat all of cata using any weapon in the game. Clearly none are superior to the others and 0 balance changes should be made.
5% AS standalone isnt enough to be noticeable, even on most heavies it takes at least 10% to make a 1 second difference in swing times, for the majority of light attacks 5% would break down to a .0x% swing timer difference, so this really only benefits careers already stacking some attack speed (before DRs), Ironically Kruber with exe sword would be one of these careers but lacks any significant attack speed options outside of weapon attributes.
He is fine, everything is “fine”.
Was this aimed at me? lol
Well it’s a PVE game, so who cares if I’m better than you.
si.
I like this point.
He’s decent, that’s all. He’s not OP, nor should he be, and he’s viable : simple proof being I haven’t played anything else since he came out (I want the 100 games played challenge without resorting to speedrunning recruit maps), and can’t complain about my successful map completion rate being any different than usual.
I’m kinda in the same boat as @Sleezy (You can correct me if I’m on the wrong page)
I must admit GK is fun and capable, played up to weave 120 almost exclusively and comfortably as GK.
In comparison to other careers, he falls short.
GK is just power, power and power, you get to a point of diminishing returns, is it needed?
Yeah he can ramp up his first target hit/single target DPS very high but he has little to no attack speed to back it up which results in him falling short to the likes of Slayer and Zealot.
Even Footknight, possibly one of the worst careers in the game can ramp up his DPS to a respectable amount in comparison to GK.
The 4x crit talent is really interesting but it’s only viable on one weapon, one attack, that being the exe heavy. If he had some crit chance to back it up, maybe it would be a different story.
I wouldn’t really call him a support either as the bonus’s he provides aren’t impactful enough, arguments such as:
Like you said, it’s not really saying much. Ranger Vet in my opinion is one of the most flawed careers in the game and talents like that one are extremely outdated. He is in need of a rework. I’d love to take a shot at it myself, maybe a mod or at least give my input when the next BBB rolls around.
I’m sure most players would prefer Mercs “supportive” abilities over GKs
His ult is actually pretty good, 40 second cooldown, 0.25 CD per enemy hit. (Can be abused with shield bash)
Has potential to clear out multiple elites, up to 2 CWs with double ult or offer him some much needed mobility. Added benefit of ignoring shields and destroying banners.
Zealot and Slayer have better melee DPS.
Merc has straight up better supportive capabilities.
WHC and BH are just straight up better anti elite careers.
Shade is a better boss killer.
Every other career has better anti special.
He isn’t really the best at anything other than taking out 2 chaos warriors in quick succession.
So yeah, GK is fun and capable but just falls short in comparison to other careers.
I run legends every day and I often - and I say OFTEN weighing my words - end up with the green circle for specials killed. The game I finished just now, I had 40 special kills, and the 3 other teammates had 10, 11 and 19 respectively.
You don’t NEED ranged in this game except for blightstormers and ratlings ; which incidentally are the 2 only specials I can do nothing about. (except of course when they’re stupid enough to tp next to me or jump the wall I’m standing next to…)
The game is mainly mellee focused and ranged ought to be an advantage some have ; hence the high overheat on Sienna and the usual low ammo count.
The only OP classes are the ones like Waystalker who have ranged ults with low cooldown and infinite ammo that usually one-shot elites and specials from a very safe distance ; but that being said, I don’t think GK has anything to be ashamed of compared to FK, Zealot, Slayer, IB, Handmaiden, Shade, Unchained or any other actually simply because they all have their niches they’re filling quite nicely.
Agree.
As a litteral statement, sure ; but I’d say GK is better at it - as would be WHC or Merc for that matter - because of the stagger and the fact that the aggro won’t change randomly when ulting.
Shade is like a BH : a supporting boss killer, the one that deals damage, but they need a frontline and have a harder time killing a boss on their own than GK who can just stagger them to death, completely nullifying the threat.
Off topic: shoot some tweaks you would want for GK
Bonus: no ranged because it clearly won’t ever happen
Bonus crit chance and/or attack speed so he has better uptime on swift slaying.
Is there a talent you would replace to make that an active boost or want it as a passive?
Ranger has probably become my favorite career over the past few months. He’s really fun and enjoyable to play. I like him because he’s a good all-rounder who can do everything quite well - frontline with shields and 2h hammer, snipe specials with crossbow, horde clear with grudgeraker, provide the team with ammo, potions with proxy and bombs (which are really fun to use once you actually get a supply of them). Using his ult, drinking a strength potion, dropping a free firebomb and then using his invisibility to snipe specials feels great, or double strength bombing a chaos patrol. Very fun class to play cause you got an extra tool to work with (consumables) which you would otherwise be very conservative with on other careers.
Not to say that some of his talents don’t need changing, but I’d really not like it if Fatshark completely changed him. I think he’s overall fine as now.
This is off topic, but I think it’d be cool if he got smiter and got some really strong melee buffs that shared a talent row with ranged buffs. So you could choose to be like a grudge spammer or you could play him like a more traditional melee career Bc Bardin doesn’t have one of those.
That sounds a little back to front. The damage dealer is the supporting boss killer?
I disagree, assuming a BH or Shade has a conc it’s incredibly easy to put a boss down quickly.
Double Shotted BH can also stagger a boss to death, deal damage and keep aggro whilst allies deal with trash.
Shade can’t stagger but I think you’re overvaluing the stagger and overestimating how difficult it is to defeat a boss solo, even with some leaking trash enemies. DWONS sure, it’s much harder to take down a boss, more so a team effort.
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@Rebel He is also one of my favorite careers but I still think he is flawed.
He has one extremely strong build:
Grudge > Master of Improvisation > Grungni’s Cunning > Firing Fury > Ranger’s Parting Gift + Firebombs.
If you run pots, sustaining ammunition becomes a lot harder, especially in QP with thieving allies.
Sometimes ammunition pouches end up in unreachable locations.
Pots + Bombs are left up to a chance + they replace the ammunition when they do drop.
Pouches round down instead of up.
10% chance to dupe isn’t impactful enough.
Ult wind up animation.
I’m not disagreeing with you, I find him fun but he is just incredibly flawed + a little inconsistent.
I like his identity, I think they can improve it and expand upon it.
That would have to either replace Mainstay or Bulwark, which I don’t like the idea of since that would make 2h hammer and axe & shield worse for him (the 2 main weapons that I use on him), and it doesn’t synergize well with his tHP generation since he has no tHP on kill. Single-target weapons like 2h axe and 1h axe don’t work well with him, partly because the weapons are a bit meh as well.
Eh, I just think that giving him any more buffs to his ranged would make him feel more like other, more DPS focused ranged careers such as BH or Huntsman. He has ammo generation from killing specials (which spreads to his team too), he gets 50% more damage during his ult (which can give you some breakpoints on specials and greatly increased monster damage) and the 35% increased reload speed from hitting 2 or more enemies. I personally think that’s enough, I like how he is right now in that aspect.
I don’t disagree with the melee buffs though, but I don’t think they have to be strong. A few of his talents like 5% attack speed and the 25% power when out of ammo are kind of meant to simulate that, but they’re clearly weak and could definitely be replaced. I like the idea of him being a melee-ranged hybrid, but he shouldn’t lean too heavily into either side in my opinion.
I mean Slayer is as traditional melee as it gets. Kind of same with IB. I know what you mean, but I think it’s great that each character has careers that are similar in function, but different in execution, so I don’t see a reason why Bardin has to have something that’s similar to Mercenary or Zealot.
I don’t use grudgeraker with Scavenger, and to be honest I really think grudgeraker is overrated on Ranger. This is the build that I personally use:
https://www.ranaldsgift.com/4/121323/11,1,3,3/6,1,3,7/3,2,1/1,6,4/7,2,3
get tHP on cleave and Mainstay for 2h hammer.
Crossbow to snipe specials and elites + it’s much easier to sustain with less ammo (and it’s just a strong weapon), axe & shield to crowd control and for survivability (it’s also has a lot of combos which makes it an engaging weapon to use), and fire bombs for horde clear. Spam potions with proxy as often as possible, strength pot + bombs to nuke hordes or patrols, concentration to help out a GK and throw extra bombs, and pickups allow everyone else to use these consumables too.
Yeah, they could make it so that it’s a guaranteed chance to dupe every 180 seconds or so, just like Zealot has his passive to resist death which recharges every so often. Just obviously gotta exclude healing from that.
It’s consistent with stuff like BH, GK and WS. All of these careers bring out a physical object to attack with, it makes sense they can’t block. That and I think it adds a neat little layer of complexity which I find to be fun.
Also, I’m thinking Scavenger could be crazy on something like C3, with the increased amount of specials.
It can be used to cheese higher weaves, due to the push action doing minor damage, allowing you to hold block and push to kill waves if it procs, effectively letting you “melee” higher weaves while behind the safety of block.