Exactly what I’ve been saying. You’re comparing him to the content and not other careers. That’s totally fine. You just need to understand what other people are talking about when they talk about balancing careers. I’m saying he’s weaker than other careers and you’re saying that he’s fine in cata. Those are two unrelated statements.
Feel free to hop in a QP with me sometime and then you can show me how OP he is.
True
I agree completely.
That’s all it needs to be though, because you’re not offering any real arguments about GK himself and how he’s weak, rather than saying ‘he does x worse than x’, which doesn’t change anything and doesn’t mean anything, because he’s still capable of filling a role and doing it well.
Every point I’ve seen made in this thread has been like someone is looking at the issue through a slit.
he has some decent representation in the top 100The entire reason I’m fighting you on this is because he’s a capable and viable Career, AND THEY ADDED SOMETHING NEW TO THE GAME WHICH DIDN’T HAVE RIDICULOUS POWER CREEP, so we don’t need 1000000000 ignored threads about how OP Grail Knight is.
Comparing Careers, comparing playstyles of said Careers. Not sure how this isn’t obvious.
She has a lower health pool. Her DMGR is active and not Passive. Her Weapons take more thought to use, and you can’t just spam push-attack combos, or switch to a Shield Weapon and spam push for survival.
Higher health pool, good THP generation, more Stamina/Push Angle, more Stagger on his Weapons.
The reason I don’t want to see him buffed and them nerfed.
They are viable. I personally don’t see a problem with the RNG, since 10% Power and 5% AS can be strong.
This isn’t really an argument, you’re just trying to dismiss a good point.
A 40 second Ult, which has the potential to kill 2-3 Elites in one hit has a downside?
All jokes aside, it’s not difficult to learn. Just use it as you would use a Charged Attack.
No, I’m saying he’s fine in Cata at filling the roles of being a melee DPS and support, you’re comparing him to Careers which have very different inherent roles, and expecting him to somehow be better at their jobs than them.
E.g expecting a support/DPS to out dps a full DPS (Zealot), which he clearly shouldn’t.
They’re one and the same thing, because you framing GK as being bad compared to other DPS with Ranged could end up getting him buffed, when he’s already good in Cata for filling his inherent roles.
Im glad to see nothing has changed and kitten still cant read.
Good counter argument.
And the winner is, me! 
Subjective. Additionally, having no dodge reduction, or speed reduction on blocks, coupled with your already better move speed makes it considerably easier for you to reposition. Also, how is the THP gen significantly different?
Which is fine, but unrealistic, and if you are still saying this you obviously havent read any of my previous posts in the thread.
Zzzzzzzz
No they dont.
I agree, GK needs some love… the ult is too risky, he hasn’t mobility/versatility on the battlefield nor a panic button, no damage reduction, duties are very RNG (a monster could not even spawn, for example), certain talents are very bad…
I don’t agree.
Now, I don’t want to start a discussion about Merc, it’s not the point of the thread, but I would not call Merc op.
Merc is really good as an hybrid support-crowd control career… he helps his mates with damage reduction and tHP… but, comparing him with the other crowd control careers, there are pro and cons.
WHC has much much much more damage and he can kill entire hordes of elites (and he also has good abilites to support the team)… Zealot has still more damage (than Merc) and he’s “immortal”.
Just to do a couple of examples, I don’t want to go offtopic.
Your refusal to acknowledge any other perspective aside from your own narrow scope, of perceived proper gameplay, or even garner understanding of the topic at hand without regurgitating, the same elitist dribble you always push (without ever managing to back it up with gameplay) has been a plague on these (and other) v2 sources for eons.
Once again, since apparently I have to repeat myself numerous times with you, the post isnt specifically about buffing GK, so you can calm down (we get it, you’re the best player ever and the game is too easy for you)
It is however about pointing out the obvious discrepancies in ability and utility with other careers. We can argue all day about how GK is tuned well and everyone else, is OP. But the fact of the matter doesn’t change, he is objectively worse than other similar careers, or in the very least, “decent at most roles” but a master of none.
I would personally be fine with other careers being adjusted to have less game breaking mechanics or options that trivialize content, like Merc active for example.
Ok we’re back to this. His role as a support is offset by the fact that he cannot fill the role of special sniper. So as I said earlier, zealot does more dps and snipes specials. So now you have to show me how his support is good enough to make up for the difference in dps and his inability to kill specials. Geez, I feel like we’ve been over this 100 times now.
So, I haven’t been responding directly to your posts? Should we go up and count?
And here I am making points as to why I think he’s strong and the drawbacks you’ve mentioned aren’t drawbacks, or are evened out.
I think you were doing more than playing devil’s advocate when you tried to claim there’s only two Weapons worth using on him.
So Careers with lots of Ranged focused Talents and Passives don’t have inherent roles? There’s no inherent role difference between WS and IB?
lel How shade weapons take more though to use, she have one of easiest to use weapons out of every character
Mercenary has 5% crit chance, innate extra cleave, 10-20% attack speed, 25-40% power, 25% damage reduction (up to 65% with ult) and great horde clearing weapons like executioner, greatsword, and then spear and longsword, while also having an ult on a 30-45s cooldown, which has an AoE easy to use knockback that staggers everything, gives everyone in the party 25+ tHP each and 40% damage reduction for 10s for everyone in the party.
Zealot has 30% power at 6 stacks, having to be at low health, 20% attack speed (40% for 5 seconds with ult), great tHP generation (for himself only), no damage reduction, immortality for a few seconds every so often, does have really powerful weapons like billhook and axe & falchion, but then Zealot gives absolutely nothing to the team. He adds nothing, no buffs, no crowd control stagger ability, absolutely nothing. He is useless for the team apart from just existing.
This is absurd. Mercenary is arguably straight up better than Zealot as a frontline melee damage dealer, while also giving absolutely insane buffs and utility to his team. Mercenary is way better than Zealot, it’s either Mercenary needs nerfs or Zealot needs big buffs. Which one is it?
This is off-topic but whatever.
Because I don’t have to do that. The entire game is not balanced around Zealot’s ability to kill Specials. Which is a problem in iteself, because Zealot really shouldn’t get Power for his Ranged from his Passive.
Zealot is also not a support.
Apples and oranges.
Different roles, different functions.
I literally have to show nothing, the burden of proof is on you to show that it’s a problem in the first place and in anyway needs to change.
I’m saying things are ok. You’re saying they’re not. Prove it.
Obviously there is, but those arent the heroes being compared. But please enlighten me, whats the role difference between slayer and GK? Your answer is going to be that GK is support. Outside of his duties, what support is being provided? Even then its not that significant when other heroes also provide useful auras or passives. Is 5% attack speed and 10% power really enough to make up the difference of having additional ranged special support, or improved killing potential? Probably not.
Of course all of these and anyone else who makes a point you instantly write off simply by saying
“it doesn’t matter what you use, the game is so easy everything is good” But just because content is doable with X, doesn’t mean X is good, or good by comparison. There is going to be an obvious tier list at the end of the day.
I honestly can’t believe you’re having this much trouble understanding.
YES! I’ve explained the roles zealot is better at and I’m saying that his support isn’t strong enough to make up for his lack of ability in the other roles. Because they are equal in melee dps that is a push. 5% attack speed and 10% cooldown regen, for example, isn’t as good for the party as being able to kill specials. Do you think it is?
So no career can be compared to each other? SO every career is balanced at all times because they can’t be compared. Solid logic.
You could argue that special killing is redundant if that is already covered by a dedicated sniper like BH, or your 3 other teammates in general.
Sure, you could make the argument. But if you have a BH or other sniper, bringing an elite killer is also redundant by the same logic.
Elites are more numerous than specials and have a tendency to get in your face. BH can’t use his ranged weapon very well if there’s several Stormvermin mobbing him, and his melee isn’t great (he gets no buffs in that regard at all).
I ran nest the other day and the GK got less than 10 elites because I stole them all w/ xbow. Pretty easy as BH tbh. But also, if you’re BH is getting pressured all the time and can’t shoot, it would be nice to have a ranged weapon to help out with specials 