Good surge staff build?

Imo if someone is reading this feedback make the staff like this -
LMB is quick medium length lightning that hits one target, staggers it and you can HOLD it to deal continuous dmg to kill it (heavy single target dmg)
RMB is charged lightning that hits 2/3 targets and deals more dmg and also can be held to deal continuous dmg until peril 100% or targets dead.
AND OR (imo this is more fun)
RMB shoots out a chain lightning like we have in Chaos Wastes in V2.

Add blessings that interact with crit, power, multiple targets hit like shotty.

Base Surge needs a buff, that’s true. But something like +25% dmg, maybe more spread dmg, spreading to more targets, and/or stronger primary target CC to stop muties like it used to would be enough. In practice that +25% dmg would let you meet flak and other breakpoints by default - or if perked let you use lesser charge levels for them, meaning faster and less peril -, letting you perk it for now newly available breakpoints of maniacs or extra crit dmg etc. instead. But its surprisingly long range and instant hits are a big advantage over Void in many situations.

I can’t say I agree with the rest of that though. With Purge, more blessings is always good ofc. But it already has Warp Nexus and a crit hit with anything Soulblaze adds 2 stacks at once. Since Soulblaze has a logarithmic dmg scale (+100% dmg for each new stack up to 4, +50% up to 8, +~40-20% up to 15 max) those extra crits make it absolutely crazy strong and really, really help with Soulblaze in general. This is why experienced people have always preferred Purge staves built for crits, even though by the details the crits themselves barely do any more damage. Its primary fire spam also adds a stack each while cleaving through and staggering almost everything. The utility of the primary spam is deceptively easy to miss, because the Soulblaze’s dmg curve makes it seem weak at first. But really it means that you can keep 20+ specials and ragers and some oggies staggered indefinitely, except that 5 seconds later they’re so stacked on Soulblaze they’ll die from just that.

But Trauma? Trauma has always been the best staff with the highest skill ceiling. With the deserved Void nerf it’s back to being just that. I’ve mained 2 psykers since release with prolly over 1k hours between the two of them on T5+, and I’ve mained Trauma since Jan. So FYI I’m a complete Trauma geek and a fan of that staff and can tell you tons of stuff about it :smiling_imp: (sorry, this will be long):

Like all weapons it has bad blessings that don’t even work right (cough Surge & Transfer Peril cough, to name a few), but it has some crazy good ones too. Warp Flurry is basically mandatory, since Trauma is all about reaching high charge levels quickly and maximizing peril efficiency. Despite the nerf to +25.5% cast speed from the +50% of before, it was buffed so now it lasts for 3-4 seconds no matter what you do. So you can now quell between blasts which with good timing means you can usually keep going indefinitely. Rending Shockwave shreds 40% armor with each full blast (brittleness caps at 80%), and while it doesn’t help you with your warp attacks it will turn Crushers with everything else into paper for your team.

The reasons for why Trauma shines are near impossible to sum up as they are so many. But I’ll try with another list:

  • It does absolutely crazy levels of AoE damage. It kills all trash including flak (with +flak perk) with a single blast, and can kill all heavies in at most 3-4 full blasts depending on perks and/or talents & procs
  • It can permanently CC everything in the game save for muties, while doing that damage
  • Its aiming is weird and unique when you’re not used to it, but its very consistent outside of stairs. Mastering that aim and its breakpoints is absolutely possible, and absolutely vital to using it effectively
  • If you learn its various charge level & enemy breakpoints for stagger, knockdown and killing, you can control and manipulate any enemy save for muties and bosses very accurately and quickly
  • It can reach up or below levels, behind obstacles and corners, and it goes through enemies too
  • It stagger is strongest at the epicenter and reduces with range outside it. The stronger your blast, the stronger the stagger both inside and outside the epicenter. Minimum charge blasts are enough to stagger horde at melee distance from the blast, while staggering elites in the epicenter. With fast aim, you can use this to instantly stagger that special about to attack you, or the horde around you or a teammate, etc. and then use the time bought by that stagger (and speed from now +1 stack for Warp Flurry) to kill whatever you just interrupted before they can recover.
  • Like all staves, its primary fire is ridiculously underrated. The primary fire speed was buffed in patch #14 (it looks like a nerf but was really a massive buff). All the staves still benefit from a trick where with specific timing you can fire + tap quell to animation cancel + fire to increase its firing speed dramatically. For Purge learning this means better stagger and faster Soulblaze application. For everything else like Trauma, it means you can easily focus down snipers, ranged, specials, even elites from max range. You can also use it to easily finish mobs that almost died but not quite, instead of wasting extra time and peril on a charged shot or having to bother with melee.
  • Especially elites have a weird stagger mechanic where once knocked down they get super high stagger resistance for a while. This makes it seem like you can’t stagger them again. But that resistance is gone the moment they can move again. So with for example Crushers, if you knock one down and can’t kill it before it gets up and attacks, make sure to time your last charged blast with enough peril so that the moment it starts moving (usually easiest to wait until their attack animation starts) you can blast it right back down again.

Now let’s put all of the above and more together, to see what this means in practice. A good Trauma user can CC any number of anything save for muties and bosses indefinitely, while also killing them very quickly. I’m literally talking about taking on 15 crushers and other heavies solo with whatever else is with them without even breaking a sweat. It can easily catch dogs, trappers, bursters etc. far behind that massive wall of elites standing in the way, where with any other staff they would just attack you through those elites. You can literally aim by nothing but sound, distance and a rough estimate of the map layout into areas 20m behind the big mass to kill specials nobody can even see, and even if you miss it’s likely they just got thrown to the ground while you’re free to try again. It can counter snipers and kill them in 0.5 seconds with 2 fast headshots or 3-4 body shots, and makes short work of any ranged at max distance so long as they aren’t moving erratically. A good Trauma combined with good positioning, awareness, good peril management and the Force Sword’s Deflector basically cannot die unless they either make a mistake, or as is lately far more common: the AI cheats and spawns 2-3 instant bursters on top of you or silent trappers behind you.

Sorry for the long post. Like I said I’m a huge Trauma nerd. :smiley:

Anyway, Voidstrike is in a great place rn and it’s definitely a strong staff. I also like that it can now be built in a few good ways too, either Transfer Peril & Warp Flurry for fast consistent damage, or Surge & Warp Nexus with crit talents and True Aim for crazy high burst and cleave. But as much fun as it is and as much as I love to use it, it doesn’t hold a candle to Trauma when it comes to clutching and carrying when things really get tough. Void was really popular before the buffs since patch #13 too, and honestly I think that’s mostly because it’s simple, easy and fun. Trauma’s biggest balancing factor is that it takes crazy long to really become good at it, and using it right is a lot of stress and effort. But my god is that staff strong and fun once you get it. :smile:

Edit: Removed my dumb mistake thinking crits were calculated separately for each target. Apologies for that. :frowning:

And a braindead voidstrike user killed those enemies 2 casts ago. - while not generating peril since he hit headshots
While you are dancing away from a sniper/gunners cursing that LMB cant kill him, a braindead voidstrike user deleted that sniper cuz no amount of bodies outside ogryns stop the RMB charge.
Also breakpoints needing to kill x enemy sound good, but the circle starts small and even on half cast its still half a staircase wide.
And voidstrike being simple and not having a high skill ceiling is a great bonus - there is no thought in it, you just do which means you can use your brainpower to take stock of the situation and help where you are needed most

Trauma isnt bad, Iam not sh-tting on it, but conflagration staff in V2 was better. (As the clear AOE killer compared to fireball)

Plus I hate when I play a melee class and trauma psyker is pushing stuff around (since edge hits deal absolutely no worhtwhile dmg, which is my GREATEST problem of it, that in reality the small circle is even smaller when I want to kil things) and once that enemy stands up Iam surrounded instead of fighting things more or less in front of me.

I mean realistically your braindead Void user is going to cry in panic the moment a big group of heavies gets close or the enemies approach from more than 1 direction. And its pretty penetration is no help against the sniper when there’s a heavy in the way. This happens all the time on T5 HISTG.

I’m not shidding on Void either, like I said it’s a great staff and tons of fun. But its limitations become real obvious real fast when things don’t go to plan. Void shines when you have your distance, can line up your shots, and the enemy doesn’t move erratically so you can get those headshots in. So does Trauma, just differently, reliably, but with less range ofc. The big difference between the two is that when things get spicy Void will begin to struggle more and more, while Trauma just starts shining and doing better and better.

And a braindead voidstrike user killed those enemies 2 casts ago. - while not generating peril since he hit headshots

Oh also, I want to add once again that I’m speaking about T5+ perspective. There even a crit Void with a Surge proc can’t 1-shot a single Crusher with headshots outside of ridiculous buff stacks (and probably +carapace perk which is a waste tbh) and at max charge. If you have this Void you can’t have Transfer Peril. So if you do have Transfer Peril like you said here, that means you need 2-3 fully charged shots to kill Crushers. And none of which will generate the amount of peril back per shot unless you score multiple hordes on the way.

Just saying. I know my psykers. :>

Idk how things work in other difficulties tho. If it’s Malice there’s way fewer enemies and they have 50% less hp so you would probably be right. I imagine Void would likely be stronger overall. Just want to add that I’m not saying this as an insult because some people do that, all difficulties have a place and none of them is lesser or better than the other, it’s just personal taste. I only mean that I play on T5+ only and thought I mentioned that, so that might be why you describe a very different Void from what I’m used to. :heart:

But those crushers were staggered.
If you are pushed from all sides and there is no time then casting trauma is good.
But also a good voidstrike with remove peril on weakpoint + charge time doesnt need to oneshot. You are just perma pumping out numbers and can keep shooting indefinitelly at any range.
If sh-t hits the fan in that situation then you are alone with 3 other people dead

Er, what now? The attack either crits or it doesn’t crit. If you hit 20 enemies, you either crit all of them, or none of them.

Certainly that’s the interaction with Soulblaze, where it crits on all enemies and lights them aflame, or none of them.

Edit:
I like Trauma a lot too, but it was lacking in damage before 13-14, and lacking even more in damage now that everything else has been boosted to high heaven, while Trauma is mostly untouched, and is possibly the weapon with the worst (non-functioning) blessing selection in the whole game. That the rending doesn’t help the staff itself is beyond idiotic design.

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I disagree. I consider myself somewhat of a Surge connoisseur and when running a Warp Charge build can consistently get top ranged kills and damage. I think it is incredibly strong if you know what you are doing right now and doesn’t need a damage buff, which is part of the reason this current bug is so powerful.

I have recently been joining Trauma gang and it is inredibly fun although I do think Surge still has a place alongside it. A question I do have for you is do you think Rending Shockwave or Blazing Spirit is better? I think both are good, but I assume Rending is for single target killing and Spirit is better for hordes, but I’ve heard that spirit is just a straight upgrade.

If you want I have 2 Surge builds, one as a main weapon and one as a secondary weapon I can share later. Ever since its changed profile in patch 13 building Surge for crit is not worth it since you dont need crit procs to deal damage to unarmored targets.

Sorry just realized you weren’t OP, you both have the same pfp color.

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In my opinion it’s kind of hard to say. If you track damage, damage numbers will go up a lot with blazing. BUT - it might all be useless damage. 3 stacks of soulblaze does practically nothing, meaning those enemies need to be hit again by you or someone else anyway. The crit rate, even with all things crit, is so low that you would rarely, if ever, manage to stack more than once before stuff is dead anyway. Things get slightly more complicated now that you can also apply 3 stacks from any elite you kill, perhaps allowing for easier stacking. You’re still relying on random chance for you to get the elite killing blow, and the staff also critting. It also doesn’t help that Trauma gains practically nothing itself from crit. Another mindblowing design decision by FS.

Rending does virtually nothing for the staff itself. It can help the team vs carapace, though. The main difference between a rending build and a blazing build is actually the warp flurry. On a flurry/rending build, the goal is to have as close to 100% uptime as possible. Relying on 10% chance of peril drop on kill, and quick quelling, to just keep hammering charged blasts as much as possible. Patch 13 has nerfed this build though, because the build relied on continuing to blast away even at 100 peril, because you had reasonable odds of the 10% peril on death kicking in - and you could just ult to vent if it didn’t kick in.

Now that quickening is built into warp charges (which is a HUGE nerf to warp charges), you never really want to press F unless you really have to. It also means using the shield for instance is pointless with a warp charge build… because you never, ever want to use your ult. FatShark really pooped all over the design here.

I have a suspicion that a flurry/rending build does more ‘real’ damage than a blazing build, (because of higher uptime and quicker casts), but it’s really tricky to know for sure.

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I think a lot of Blazing Spirit being useful comes from taking the Wildfire talent, which suddenly means stuff thay gets thrown around or not even hit by your staff starts taking damage, and if you have to switch to melee your fire damage will continue to jump between enemies and rack and damage and potentially kills as well. Also it might let you more liberally use your Warp Charge ultimate as wellz because wildfire kills will have a chance to give you charges.

Possibly, though if Wildfire still works in the same way it did before #13, it is… not very impressive.

This happens quite a bit anyway, as the blaze hits any enemy even mildly touched by the stagger of the Trauma, which is a bigger area than people think.

Thanks, that’s the kind of stuff i was looking for!

Er, what now? The attack either crits or it doesn’t crit. If you hit 20 enemies, you either crit all of them, or none of them.

:sob: Omg! I went and tested this out and you’re absolutely right. Idk where I got that idea. Jeez and I always try my best to make sure to test everything to make sure something like this doesn’t happen. :frowning_face: But thanks so much for pointing this out! At least now I know better through my shame.

Now knowing this Blazing Spirit just got way better than I ever throught it was. With Venting Shriek & Creeping Flames and Perilous Combustion. Even a single proc with either of those will just melt everything in a huge area. I need to think on this, I don’t want to lose Warp Flurry but I really wanna pair this thing with Warp Nexus now. I even have a staff like that but thanks to no +flak perk it sucks, I can’t handle a Trauma that doesn’t 1-shot flak.

Now that quickening is built into warp charges (which is a HUGE nerf to warp charges), you never really want to press F unless you really have to. It also means using the shield for instance is pointless with a warp charge build… because you never, ever want to use your ult. FatShark really pooped all over the design here.

I agree and Warp Siphon has horrible internal synergy rn. Initially I hated it for forcing you to choose either its buffs or ults. But after accepting that it has simply fundamentally changed as a whole, I’ve also come to view it as a blessing in disguise. Most of my pure staff builds only use 1 point Warp Siphon, and the shield and Venting Shriek work absolutely wonderfully in that regard. It helps me get other talents elsewhere that aren’t wasted when I use my ult, and basically guarantees the 30% CD reduction for each ult. That with Psykinetic’s Aura is just massive, and I find myself blasting shriek or shields every 10-15 seconds in an average busy fight. More ults ofc. means more massive horde clear, more Soulblaze stacks on them specials+, more venting, and more consistent shields in general. It’s just sad because I really don’t see much value in Warp Siphon otherwise. It’s so deep down the line that the talents you’d have to spend are almos always put to better use elsewhere.

Edit: Also since we’re on the subject of annoying changes or things talent in general, there’s something I’d like to add and get your views on too:

  • The nerf to Kinetic Presence might have been justified. But because of that, if you have even 2 talents to play around with and especially if you have a crit build, you can now go through Seer’s Presence → Empathic Evasion → Ranged Damage boost instead. And this other route is just basically better in every way imo. A tiny passive shouldn’t be better than an aura, even if only because you get better auras on the way there. :c
  • Another issue I have is that I already dislike Assail as it is. But I still want to try to learn to like it. But not only do I completely lose Psykinetic’s Aura (which is a crazy good talent virtually all my builds depend on for those fast CD’s on T5+), I have to pick that dumb Mind in Motion to even get access to any other aura and Venting Shriek itself! Venting Shriek pairs wonderfully with Assail but Mind in Motion is a complete and utter waste of a talent for me since I’m used to quelling in slides & dodges for better mobility than that thing ever gives anyway, and it’s just so annoying to get something like that while losing Psykinetic’s Aura. x.x

Please tell me I’m not alone. :joy:

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If you want I have 2 Surge builds, one as a main weapon and one as a secondary weapon I can share later. Ever since its changed profile in patch 13 building Surge for crit is not worth it since you dont need crit procs to deal damage to unarmored targets.

Yes please! I’m by no means a Surge expert, especially not since patch #13. Basically all about Trauma. Since the patch it’s mostly been Trauma & Void now that crit Void is fun. :>

You’re not alone. It’s bad enough that your choice of aura locks you out of/locks you into certain talents, but worst of all is that choice of aura also locks you into choice of blitz. It makes no sense whatsoever.

But yeah, enforced quickening destroys most if not all warp charge builds. It’s a baffling bit of design. “Tested by the community” indeed. It doesn’t help that the other two keystones are… kind of really, really crap? In that they tend to only work with very specific builds, and they’re also just… incredibly unexciting. Downright boring, even.

You’re often better off just skipping the keystones altogether, because there’s plenty of builds and playstyles that end up not really benefiting from any of them.

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A typical surge allrounder. Takes advantage of crits and warp charges to pick off high value targets. Brain Burst to pick off targets outside of your staff range. Fire from high value targets will soften / kill hordes. Horde clear with Vent, passive fire, and melee. Sword is an all-rounder with high mobility and good damage to keep you alive.

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I’d probably swap MkV for MkIV, and swap shred for rampage. Might just be a matter of taste, though.

You can switch out kinetic deflection for anything else you want, for example if you think perilous combustion and wildfire is better.

Since they changed the Surge crit profile in patch 13 I do not believe building solely for crit is the way to go, at least if its your primary weapon. My staff has Warp Nexus and Warp flurry because those are the only 2 actually useful blessings on it. I run unyielding (the locked in Perk but is suprsingly useful against bulwarks and Reapers) and Maniac for perk damage. Best would probably be Unarmored and Manic to kill Dreg Gunners faster. Maniac damage lets you 1 shot trappers and brings Mutant threshold down from 4 to 3, while unarmored brings Dreg Gunner breakpoint from 3 to 2.

I run it with an Illisi sword with Executor and Slaughterer, since anything big I’m going to pull out my staff for.

My build where I run it as a secondary is a typical Disrupt Destiny Scryer’s Gaze build, nothing really special. Since the damage buff lasts after Scryer’s, you can melee for the duration and when its done, switch to staff, quell, and take advantage of the damage boost if necessary. It’s far from the most optimal build but I find it lots of fun.

One of these days I’ll get the surge blessing on Trauma…one of these days… :cry:

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One of these days I’ll get the surge blessing on Trauma…one of these days… :cry:

Neither Surge nor Sustained Fire works on Trauma though. Never has unfortunately. At least I’m like 90% sure I tried Surge after patch #13 yet again, and it only procs for primary fire same as Sustained Fire. Transfer Peril and likewise procs only on headshots so primary fire too. That’s what was meant before with Trauma’s worst possible blessing selection since most of those things are just quite literally useless. :frowning:

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:heart:

Me too. I always try to play the 4 characters “in role”. I know gun-psyker is a thing, but staffs are unique so why not use them.

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Me being very stupid, I was referencing your crit Void build and meant to say I need to get Surge on the Voidstrike staff one day.

Yes the Trauma Staff Blessing sucks and whoever designed it so half the blessings dont work with the main purpose of the staff should feel ashamed.

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