Full Weapon Rebalance

Warhammer: Vermintide 2 Gameplay Feedback
21

I’m with Rebel on some aspects here. Personally, this mod is really hard to stomach for me. There are nearly no tone downs of overperforming weapons and a good chunk of weapons received insane increases in mobility AND/OR attack speed. I don’t like this community overreliance on speed as it is just there to compensate bad playing in other areas. This is also troublesome as I assume the high speed is partially responsible for some of the bugs we see.

It seems to me that all the weapon changes have been made with solo performance in mind like “How to change the weapon so that I can solve this situation with no team around.” with the result that teamplay will be less necessary. Personally, I prefer if we have weapons which are overall slower but need better teamplay and positioning.

5 Likes
22

Repeater Pistol:

  • I and the other players I was playing with had the standard 60 shots when using the Repeater Pistol on BH (off-host and as host).

Volley Crossbow:

  • If I had to guess 4s might be alright for the reload time. It’s also insane on Zealot, disgusting boss dps (infinite ammo smite build).

Handgun:

  • The Handgun feels a bit too fast. Maybe add back half a second to the reload (edit: sorry I misread the change. Maybe a quarter of a second would be more fitting imo). It was already pretty good on Huntsmen, and it’s just a better crossbow on him with this buff. Quick and easy bodyshots for days. The extra ammo makes it feel about right on Merc and FK.

Falchion

  • The extra crit synergises a bit too well with WHC. I think heavy linesmen might also be too much.
23

So I just tried out WHC with 1h axe. And uhhhh…wow is that thing broken. Mein Gott. With extra attack speed talent and ult CDR talent I obliterated a couple dozen or so C3 maulers in like a minute or 2. There is no way that it isn’t considered broken. It shreds things like chaos warriors faster than anything else in the game. That is way too much.

24

Great, great mod :heart:

I strongly disagree with that guy who said “teamplay will be less important”.

Every change this mod did just put the weapons into a precise niche (apart, obvly, those weapons meant to be a jack of all trades)… they all still have pro and cons.

Fantastic also how, the nerf you did, are well thought out and they don’t ruin the weapons… for example I don’t think that Billhook and A&F must be tuned down… but I have nothing against your nerf.

2H Sword (Kruber + Saltzpyre)
Move speed charging heavy attacks increased to 60% from 20%
Light attack animation speed sped up by approximately 10%

1H Mace / 1H Hammer
All light attacks now have Tank hit mass multiplier
Light attacks 3 & 4 now have the same animations as light attacks 1 & 2, respectively

2H Hammer (Kruber + Bardin)
The push attack now has the same damage profile as the heavy attacks. No tank hit mass count

Halberd
Attack pattern animation and damage profile now goes L1 L1 L3
L2 stab was removed
Heavy swipe is now a single target move with the damage profile of Billhook overhead (Heavy 2)
Attack animation speed of light 1 increased slightly
Dodge range increased from 0.95 (-5%) to 1.1(10%)
Move speed during light 1 increased significantly (from ~75% movespeed to ~100% movespeed)

Flail
Lights 1 & 2 now have Tank hit mass count
Push attack now has the damage profile and animation of light attack 2 (single target)

Swiftbow
Increased armor damage by approximately 100% on charged shots
Increased monster damage by 30% on charged shots
Increased cleave by 300% for quick shots and 200% for charged shots

Especially these changes are wonderful… and I agree in general too.

There are just few little exceptions:

1H Sword (Kruber + Sienna)
Finesse multiplier increased to ~2 for all attacks, up from 1.4 for light attacks, 1.5 for heavies

Imho it needs something that helps its niche of “versatile/defensive” weapon… I would prefer a push attack with the same profile as heavy attacks and (maybe) a push that consumes one only stamina.

Handgun
Reload time reduced from 2.0s to 1.5s
Max ammo = 16, up from 12

The best thing would be more penetration. Handgun is meant to be slow but lethal (indeed it has sweet breakpoints)… BUT, if it can’t penetrate nothing, we can’t exploit its damage (since we have tons of specials between hordes).
And, since its slow rate of fire, this would not make it over power against hordes.

Glaive and 2H Sword (Elf)

They would be more stagger to help Handmaiden in her work of crowd control career.

Repeater Pistol
Bullet spray now shoots 12 pellets
Bullet spray now has the same damage profile as Blunderbuss/Grudgeraker (shotgun pellet damage profile)
Each clip now has 12 ammo

I’m a little bit undecided… This would be precious in order to give to Rep Pistol a unique niche… but I like the old niche of Chaos Warriors killer too.

2 Likes
25

Its attack speed will probably be toned down based on feedback so far.
For reference the attack time of the light chain is 2.02s unbuffed.
The animation delay after the third light can be cut down to make the chain 1.78s with block cancel after the third light.
The buffed attack time is 1.49s, a 26% buff over the default light chain and a 16% buff over unbuffed block cancel.
Only removing the animation delay on light 3 puts its attack time at 1.54s.
Opinions on what it should be?

3 Likes
26

I think that makes sense for heavier weapons, but I don’t know that makes sense for lighter 1h weapons. (as far as attack speed goes) What exactly would you buff for some of the underperforming weapons then instead of attack speed?

27

I would probably keep the pause at ~0.3s and increase light attack combo speed by ~8% (this is on vanilla axe). This makes it less insane with WHC and it already has easy Swift Slaying activation. Its anti-armour damage is decent enough I feel, but it would still struggle with regular infantry hordes. I would suggest a buff to its base damage, so it can kill regular infantry enemies like raiders much more easily (maybe reach some breakpoints for one-shotting them?), and shred maulers and berserkers nicely.
Another matter are the heavy attacks, which both on vanilla and on your mod I feel like have no role to play, but I can’t think of anything right now.

3 Likes
28

The heavy attacks are a tough one, on paper they deal about the same DPS vs armor as lights (vanilla) and about ~10% more on superarmor, but they’re too unwieldy compared to the attack speed of lights and the insane stagger(and stagger bonus damage) on light crits. The heavy attacks are buffed in attack speed in the mod but it doesn’t solve the problem of overlapping too much with lights.

10% boost to infantry damage on lights would let you one shot fanatics in the body, marauders in the head with 30% power versus

2 Likes
29

WIP Patch Notes, will add some more changes before adding it to the mod, but wanted feedback on these from anybody

1H Axe
Additional attack light speed increase reduced from 12% to 8%
Animation delay after light 3 reverted to 0.3s (0.45s in vanilla), 0s previously
(Attack time for light chain is nerfed to 1.74s, 14% buff over vanilla, 3% buff over L1-L2-L3-block cancel vanilla, 12% nerf to attack speed over last patch)
Move speed while attacking reduced from 100% to 85% (75% originally)

Repeater pistol
Reverted to vanilla, change that remains is linesman on the bullet spray and additionally the bullet spray has been given 50% additional penetration against Chaos Warriors on crit
to allow it to oneshot CWs on Cataclysm with at least 50% of pellets hitting the head. Previously it was short 24% damage assuming every pellet hit the head with the maximum power possible on Bounty Hunter.

Volley Crossbow
5 projectiles reverted to 3
Reload speed nerfed from 3s back to 4s (5s originally)
Cleave increased by 150% to match crossbow
Ammo pool boosted by 50% (from 30 max ammo to 45)

Handgun
Cleave buffed 50% to match crossbow

Mace ( Sienna)
Move speed during lights nerfed from 100% to 80% (60% originally)

Halberd
Move speed during L1 reduced from 100% to 80%, (75% originally)

Shields will probably lose their movespeed buffs entirely

3 Likes
30

Congratulations. You’ve managed to turn Legend into Champion and Cata into the new Legend.

I’m a fairly decent player in Legend and can just about manage a run through with bots.

I just steamrolled through Legend with barely a whisper of concern. Attacking patrols with impunity, mowing down hordes, and so on.

It’s like 1.6 all over again.

2 Likes
31

You literally tried a couple of weapons and are already saying he broke the entire difficulty system.
Might I suggest saying which weapons you tried and explaining what was so overpowered about the changes instead of making hyperbolic statements based on a single run?

3 Likes
32

there’s far more knowledgeable and better players than me coming in here giving exact number to change and feedback.

I played Kruber FK Greatsword and barrelled through it no problem - just like a Champion game. Whereas I really really struggle in Legend with that weapon.

I played RV with dual hammers - same story.

With bots. God knows how easy it’d be with 4 players.

That was enough for me. If I can download the mod, change nothing else and plough through Legend where I struggled before that makes it ridiculously buffed. I’m sure this will go on arguing the minutiae of detail and there are people who have been pushing for buffs for a while and here you go.

Have fun!

33

You really should check the patch notes. Greatsword lights were buffed in attack speed by 10%. Dual hammers were unchanged… so it wasn’t this mod for dual hammers.

3 Likes
34

But… but… there were 3 other weapons on the field?..

35

And you didn’t say what they were so I can’t say unless you tell us.

36

So it’s good news then? I just got absolutely bloody brilliant all of a sudden!

1 Like
37

Probably going to keep updating this comment as I keep playing.

KRUBER

Firstly: Halberd is very, very strong. I said many times that Halberd’s dodge malus was obsolete because it prevented it from being able to dodge away from aggressive attacks, I noticed was that the 10% increase allowed it to stay away from combo attacks from a Chaos Spawn while staying within Halberd’s attack range. The L2 stab attack is a waste so I didn’t miss it, but the speed of L1 swipe was too fast while playing as Mercenary. Also with no break between it and L3 you didn’t need to block cancel. I think lowering the speed and making the Heavy 1 attack a cleaving attack again instead of a single target attack would be good.

The handgun is a beast! I really think 1.5 second reload makes using the handgun on Merc feel like patch 1.6 handgun huntsman build after scoring a headshot and having all the reload talents. Maybe it should be at 1.6 or 1.7 second reload speed instead?

The 2h hammer’s push attack was nerfed, it’s not a big deal, just surprised. The bug fix is appreciated.

Greatsword is very, very fast. In vanilla you kind of have to use heavy attacks during chaos/beast hordes. With this change you can light attack through chaos hordes easily. I would say this weapon has no weaknesses except for Chaos Warriors with this attack speed.

Mace and Sword’s push attack is causing bleed damage, not sure if that’s a bug caused by other mods (at least in keep against dummies)

BARDIN

2h Axe is kind of insane. Using it on IB, I just butchered a minotaur and I think that’s a red flag. It’s like the return of QQ Hammer while cutting out the middle man.

Drakefire Pistols alt-fire might be too strong. Was this done in order to make it work with the IB talent that increases damage and heat generation? The ~33% heat reduction is a huge difference.

2 Likes
38

I would buff its base damage from 17.75 to either 20.0 or 21.0.
21.0 with 10% would let you one-shot headshot and one-shot crit bodyshot clan rats (20.0 would need more power), shave off a few hits from maulers, a hit from raiders with headshots or crits, oneshot bodyshot ungors with 10%, potentially shave off a hit from gors. Both 20.0 and 21.0 would need a tiny bit more power to be able to oneshot headshot/bodycritshot fanatics.
20.0 is the more conservative choice which would force you to take more power if you want to reach some of the breakpoints I mentioned above. Note this is on Cataclysm difficulty and not including stagger bonus.

3 Likes
39

Yeah, currently greataxe is exactly like DK, without having to be slayer or dealing with weapon switching. Same with current 1h axe. Cutting out the animation pauses makes a really big difference, maybe bigger than what the modders thought.

40

Buffing base damage on axe is actually kind of tricky, because the way Fatshark handled it was that many weapons share the same damage profile as the light attack on axe… the axe in axe falchion would also be buffed. light 3 on falchion (outside of this mod) and 1h sword also uses this profile, axe and shield and elven axe.
It could certainly be done, creating new damage profiles, would take some time though.
Axe and Falchion being buffed of course being the problem.

4 Likes