Yes ofc I have and none of it is indicative of them actually caring about skill conducive design, but I think you already know that and those who don’t wanna see it won’t so that’s that.
That is the point, yes. Sometimes, as Ogryn, you charge into a crowd, they get up right to you, ACTIVELY SWITCH FROM THEY MELEE WEAPONS TO THEIR RANGED WEAPONS and start shooting you.
It does not happen all the time. But it happens often enough to be annoyingly frustrating, because the game punishes you for something it incentivises you to do: Seizing the initiative in close quarters. Engaging ranged enemies in a way they can’t attack you until you are in melee range and then having the upper hand is the reason the maps are layed out with so many opportunities for flanking. “Realism” isn’t even an argument, because this was a legit tactic in both world wars: Flanking into trenches, flushing them with grenades, then engaging the enemy with knifes, spades and clubs while the other soldiers still have their ranged weapons out.
I use my gun at least 75% of the time when I play zealot these days. They say it’s supposed to be 50/50, but it’s heavily weighted towards ranged play on higher difficulties.
Wdym? Using a high dps single target grenade - big box of hurt - to cc from range and then close the gap? And don’t answer me teamplay now in response. An Ogryn should be able to close gaps on his own. Not every single action you take has to be predecated on someone else giving you an assist.
Same here I just sit back with my lasgun being a discount zealot veteran sharpshooter that charges in once in a while. Melee classes like zealot and ogryn need a toughness buff big time. 1 scab rifleman can take your toughness from 100 to 0 in one volley on damnation while stunlocking you. Charging into a group of ranged should make them drop the ranged and go into melee mode. Another problem is that suppression is hit or miss.
I don’t think they necessarily need a toughness buff, but rather gameplay tools to help them manage those specific situations, like tying in a natural immunity to range stagger from enemies within a certain range.
I think what would help tremendously would be putting both zealot and Ogryn in a dodged state during their charges, so they can’t be hit while they are charging. That, and just increase the radius and reliability at which enemies switched into melee.
From what I’ve noticed, if you hit the enemy with melee or knock them down while you’re close they will 100% switch to their melee weapon. Otherwise the distance before they switch to melee depends on each unit, with the scabs carrying short carbines willing to fire into melee the at the shortest range before pulling out a sword. (This guys also have a pretty fast rate of fire.)
I personally love the system. How to approach a group of ranged enemies is just as much a challenge to melee focused players as how to deal with a group of melee enemies trying to keep a ranged focused player from shooting at long distance targets.
Hard disagree as a ranged you shoot them before they get to you. There is no mechanical complexity. And having to learn the minute details of the exact distance for each enemy type to enter melee is just hyper-unintuitve.
Here your typical melee engagement with ranged enemies in melee:
- close the gap towards the first minion
- damage said minion
- not managing to kill him in time due to getting shot at by others just three feet away
- canceling engagement with first enemy to try and lock the others in melee
- proceed to get shot at by the enemy you just fought, because he decides to switch to range as you may still be in melee range of him, but no longer actively fighting him
→ rounding up a group of ranged enemies in melee is a chore change my mind
Seriously who thinks this is fun?
I think it’s fun. If all you do is walk up and hit the first guy and hope he dies, you’re also doing a bad job.
The audio cue and flash that comes before they shoot seems to have become less common. Enemies have often fired instantly, and this becomes especially infuriating because this applies to snipers as well.
Also, I feel like a lot of people commenting that this and OP’s concern is fine are:
- maining vet
- playing on lower difficulties where a single burst shot won’t delete all your toughness
I don’t have this issue.
Reaper. Reaper plz. Reaper plz stop it. Reaper >:(
This is really obnoxiously common. Generally if it’s an actual threat I have to forcibly stun them out of it with my revolver then they might decide to back off/melee. Or they just go right back to dakka dakka’ing if they’re not dead yet.
Biggest issue is shotgunners since they can absolutely delete all of your toughness and some health in one shot. I’m more afraid of them than 99% of enemies in the game.
Shotgunner is about the only one that would cut some slack, since it’s kind of their thing to be a ranged threat in melee range.
Thematically it would be somewhat accurate, but in terms of how absolutely deadly they are with the combination of burst damage combined with how much they stagger and displace the players they shoot, it would honestly just make it very oppressive if they kept shooting in melee range.
Besides, the shotguns in this game are not like shotguns in most other games, where the shotguns effective range just drops off a cliff a few meters out, the shotgun actually has good range for both players and enemies.
Part of the game mechanics is ‘if you shoot at enemies, they will break and try to find cover’. If you’re just running in looking for melee and not shooting at entrenched, gun wielding enemies, it’s not the game mechanics that are failing, it’s you who are failing to make use of the game mechanics. I’ve fired on lots of enemies just to make them flinch, then closed to engage them in melee first without being shot. I’ve also run towards a group of gun using enemies and got my @$$ shot off, so that’s my fault. It always LOOKS like you’re close enough to force them to swap weapons, but it’s not always the case.
Then there are the ‘gun specific’ gunners and shotgunners who often just don’t stop shooting who are almost always mixed in with the more normal shooters. These are the ‘shredders’ of those groups, because the gunners can just stop you from moving forward at all, while the shotgunners stagger you, leaving you open and knocking you back. If you’re charging these types, you really shouldn’t expect them to choose a hatchet over their perfectly good, enemy type specific weapons until you actually hit them once… and maybe not then either.
Reading this makes me think you’ve been playing a lot of bumrush missions where your only play tactic is ‘run fast and hit with thing in hand’ instead of doing… you know… anything else.
Part of the game mechanics is “if you get close to enemies, they’re supposed to switch to melee and fight you that way.”
Reading this makes me think you don’t know how the game is supposed to work. Emphasis supposed.
Also try looking at the actual example; I am literally actively meleeing it for ~10 seconds with it never swapping to melee or attempting to back off. I don’t expect it anymore because this game is a janky, buggy mess. That said, they are supposed to switch to melee/attempt to back off in the case of gunner type enemies. Being condescending and implying I’m too stupid to think of anything else is insulting and you can kindly get over yourself. Part of why I prefer zealot or ogryn right now is because you can either tank ranged enemies (via crit zealot) or knock them on their ass (via rumbler) to deal with the fact that they don’t work the way they’re actually designed to.
Here’s another example for the actual cover shooter enthusiasts. The point of Zealot is to lock enemies into melee, instead bullets stop your dash and when you enter a spawn closet with 2 shooters in it you still need to cap 1 with your gun or lose 100 toughness instantly.
Apparently Darktide is meant to be Call of Duty on Veteran, minus enemies throwing grenades. Also that this is a class based game but not playing Veteran is being horribly equipped and at a disadvantage. As if their giant toughness pool wasn’t a big enough advantage.