Final Events Tweaks and Patch Notes

Warhammer: Vermintide 2 Gameplay Feedback
1

Hello there!
There’s a long running thing with updates the game gets and I’d like to talk about it.
Someone has been tweaking final events of variuos map without reflecting it in patch notes consistently for quite some time, can’t say exact period, sadly.

For example, let’s have a look at some final events after the Outcast Engineer Update.
Here are patch notes to refresh your memory: patch 3.4, patch 3.4.1, patch 3.4.2.

And here are the final events that I think has been secretly touched. Difficulty is Legend.
Little note to all videos - turn up your sound to maximum, ShadowPlay reduces it and I have no idea how to fix it.

  1. Against the Grain Finale
    Now, after the last captives were set free, the door to the exit was opened and someone stepped on the bridge (is it called bridge), gutter runner spawns almost obligatory. There has been only 1 time when it didn’t happen.
    Was it reflected in patch notes? No, Against the Grain isn’t mentioned at all.
  2. Hunger in the Dark
    For some reason plague monks spawn at the start of event right after berserkers. Also, looks like that infantry keeps showing up after troll comes out, but I might be wrong about that. Or not?
    Nevertheless, was it mentioned in patch notes? No.
  3. Enchanter’s Lair - I got slapped hard in that video :expressionless:
    I’m actually uncertain about it.
    At the very start when the map’d been added there were chaos warriors showing up during fight with Nurgloth. They were removed later, as far as I’m aware. And now they show up again. At the start, in the middle or the end of the battle, but they show up. It was an unpleasant surpise to meet them for the fisrt time.
    As again, it was not stated in patch notes.
  4. Empire in Flames
    I’m not sure what’s happening with this one and if it’s happening at all, but it’s still worth mentioning, in my opinion.
    The issue is that at some point after players’d ignited the cart a huge wave of chaos mobs showed up (including chaos warriors). Now it’s not there anymore.
    I didn’t manage to find any record about it neither in recent patch notes, nor in previous one up to patch 3.0 when Grail Knight’d been added and their spawn’d been tweaked.

I also wanted to include Festring Ground finale due to enormous amount of plague monks and stormvermins, but it was reflected in patch 3.0, so this one is ok in my book.

You might think I’m complaining that Legend’s too difficult. It’s not about that, I can handle it just fine and really don’t mind spice some things up.

What’s the reason for all these changes not to be mentioned in update descriptions?
Is it some kind of test build of the game somehow slipping into release one?
Is someone being lazy and not documenting all changes they make?
Or are the only ones, who get all information, chosen circle of Twitch streaming tryhards in some sort of secret Discord group because the game’s being shaped to their needs only and they think legend’s too easy despite the fact they hadn’t touched it since Cataclysm introduction and the rest of the community is simple irrelevant? :salt: :salt: :salt:

Whatever the reason is, let me tell this.
The fact those changes remain unknown until we see them in the game makes the development process look chaotic and disorganized from outsider’s perspective, at least for me. Maybe even disrespectful to the community to some degree.

So, here’s my very final message.
To whoever does it, please, stop. Document all changes, collect them into a single document and show it to players.
I love this game and want it to prosper, not to be abandoned and lost in unneeded secrets.

So, @Fatshark_Hedge, can you, please, give some attention to this matter and, if you find it reasonable and noteworthy, transfer the message to its recepient?
Thank you.
P.S. I’m really sorry, if it was rude.

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I can’t really confirm all your findings, I’ve had gutter runners before at the last stage of Against the Grain and Chaos Warriors very rarely on Enchanters (since it’s release), the Chaos Wave after triggering the cart is also still persitent for me. Not sure about Hunger in the Dark tho, the infantry spawn after ringing the bell happens for quite some time now.
I don’t really do any data mining tho and RNG is a big factor in the game aswell… but I also do not trust FS when it comes to communicating, so it’s maybe only them who can confirm your findings.

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Against the Grain - Special spawns are random, not obligatory
Sometimes I get a hookrat or leech after opening the last cages. Sometimes I get specials coming from the opposite side near the bridge of shadows. Sometimes I don’t get any specials at the end there.

Hunger in the Dark - That was removed ages ago
Plague monks used to drop down from that window shaped hole right before cart gets to it’s final destination. AFAIK, they stopped spawning there sometime last year. Can’t remember why but might have something to do with them being silent when attacking and downing everyone from behind. At least that’s what my experience was with that location. Good FKN riddance. I’d rather they spawn from the front than from behind since their attack sounds are still messed up.

Enchanter’s Lair - Mob spawns are random
First of all, I only saw 2 CW so I would say you were extremely lucky as whenever I get Legend/Cata Enchanter’s Lair, the game loves to spawn forever Maulers and Savages. Not always though but enough to aggravate me sometimes. Also, you were getting slapped hard because Nurgloth was knocking you into the light which was knocking you into death. Dodge appropriately when Nurgloth focuses you.

Empire in Flames - Unsure about your complaint here
I’ve been playing this game since 2018 and Empire in Flames feels the exact same now as it did almost 3 years ago.

IIRC, there were only 4 end events that were actually tweaked due to spiked difficulty. Two of them were Fort Brachsenbruke and Skittergate.

RNG is RNG even if it feels like the game seems the exact same for multiple times in a row.

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Let’s hope you’re the right one here.
Because it feels to me that some spawns (like that gutter runner at Against the Grain) received Athel Yenlui treatment when touching the crystal activates spawning process. I might be wrong about it.

They are indeed, and I get waves of berserkers and maulers too from time to time. It’s the fact that chaos warriors consistently show up that confused me. Haven’t seen it in a while. Like a loooong while. Oh, and I’m not seeking advices here, thank you.

It seems that choosing final events as a subject of discussion was a mistake and made things unclear.
So, let me spell it out once again. There are changes that are brought into the game without being mentioned in the patch notes. I want this to be got rid of, and all updates the game receives should be crystal clear.

I can come up with few more examples of such changes.
First one is that the entire section of the keep is blocked now. Yes, they made blog posts about redecoration on their own website later, but was it mentioned initially? No.

Second example is the fact that bots can pick up ammo pouches by themselves. Was it reflected in patch notes? No.

The third and final one so far is the final events of beast weaves. Respawn of totems was removed in previous season, and then it was brought back in season 4 for some of the weaves, not all of them. Any patch notes about it? No.

Hope, this can give better understanding of the practice I want to be stopped.

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To be honest, everything mentioned in the first post sounds like the usual variance of end events. I haven’t noticed anything out of the ordinary neither on Legend nor Cataclysm.

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At least for Hunger in the Dark, there was definitely changes (can’t remember if they got mentioned in notes or not)

https://www.reddit.com/r/Vermintide/comments/aj9fvx/the_events_of_vermintide_2_and_their_inner/

Hunger in the Dark
The event consists of a first wave (an event large), followed by a set of non-repeating waves (everything until after the plague monks), then followed by a set of repeating waves until the bell is rung. It also has extra terror events chosen from a pool of 3 in charge of spawning specials while the main event is ongoing. All other spawns are stopped when the troll spawns.

I agree with your main point that patch notes are not clear enough and never have been, there were a lot of undocumented changes with the Engineer patch

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Game developers are not required to state every single change in the patch notes. Doing that would cause each and every one of them to be miles long.

Also, if they were to make drastic changes to the end events, they would mention them.

I was wondering because in the video, you didn’t seem to know what to do and you just let Nurgloth bully you silly. Sorry was only trying to help so you don’t get rekd next time.

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You’re right, they’re not required to, but not doing so leaves them open to criticism on it

The players should not have to randomly figure out things got changed on their own, that’s laziness. You’d think it would be in the best interests of game developers to have some sort of a list of changes that would make it fairly easy to pull notes from, instead of developers changing stuff without telling each other.

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I personally wouldn’t want such detailed infos in the patch notes.
I am pretty sure such minor changes in the maps are made intentionally to keep them interesting.
And giving a detailed description on what happens now if you step on that bridge defeats the surprise element, right?

I take a guess that you are a perfectionist and want to know exactly what could happen at the next corner, with already the most efficient strategy at hand.
Nothing wrong with that playstyle.

Would “New funny suprises on map XY” suffice?
I would be fine with that.

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Up to Patch 3.0 a lot of events had - outside of specials - extremely static spawns so that you could stop on a watch when which enemy would apper from where. This has however been broken down in smaller segments to make events feel more randomized as people complained about static spawns. It is not specifically mentioned in the listed Patch Notes, however, it was mentioned in the Developer Update - May 8 - Announcements - Fatshark Forums (fatsharkgames.com).

To your specific points:

Can’t say assassins spawn regularly for me. This is rng.

This change has happened with the Grail Knight update. The event is still pretty static for the most part but the order has changed here.

Chaos Warrior Wave is and always has been random. They never changed anything in that regard. You could get it all the time. Just another case of rng. Sometimes you get them, sometimes you don’t. The only changes to the event to my knowledge are: explosions in final phase no longer damage bots, nurgle flies being slower and I think the spawn drops from all four windows during his invincibility phase so that not 8 Chaos Warrior jump on your head.

Not sure how they define end event but here from Patch 3.0

As said in the Developer Update the events in general have been a bit more randomized.

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11

Fair enough, except one thing.

Even if it’d been changed in Grail Knight update, it wasn’t mentioned in patch notes.
And this is a thing I created topic for. Such changes must be reflected in update description, simply because ignoring them leads to chaos and misunderstanding.
Something like “Spawn time of plague monks was tweaked due to %REASON_NAME%” would be really nice.
That’s about it.
Thank you for claryfying my mistakes.

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12

Great idea, in fact let’s just replace all patch notes with “General fixes and improvements”

Stuff like bomb damage in Cata being fixed should be included in the patch notes, there’s not really an excuse

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How?

Fatshark is removing some static spawns and converting them to more random spawns as majority of community has requested.

No need to report in patch notes. Just learn to adapt.

Now, if the entire event were to be reworked then, yes, it should be reported in patch notes. Not small tweaks that most people wouldn’t even notice.

Idk about anyone else here, but I do not want to read 40 pages of patch notes because you want every single change listed.

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Cant say too much about the spawns cause I haven’t payed as much attention as you.
However, you are absolutely right when it comes to patch notes and clarity. Nothing urks me more than when I see some vague description of an update. I dont understand FS reasoning to hide specific changes behind a veil when they can just be upfront about it.

1 Like