I’m sorry but nowhere does it say that you won and by the way you’ve worded it and your overall tone, it kind of implied you lost. Unfortunately for you, even if I did say it was lost when you clearly wrote it wasn’t, that alone doesn’t make my arguments a straw man. As much as I like that you show some familiarity with logical fallacies, there is some irony to be had in the fact that you are the one committing them here, not I.
You failed to address any of my arguments, and never will, instead portraying me as a ‘git gud’ guy. Now that, my friend, is not only a fallacy, but intellectual dishonesty. There is no need for the condescending attitude. I am sorry that I hurt your feelings, though.
As you obviously have no want for a constructive back and forth, I will leave you to it.
IE there is no perfect difficulty design, only perfect difficulty designs. And mind you im talking core design philosophy, not bugs or core designs that need to be tweaked within the existing system.
So let me get this straight: You automatically equate “2 players CC’ed” with “Game lost”, because it helps you make your point. It doesn’t say that we won (barely) because this is irrelevant to the issue at hand. Then you explain to me, in a passive aggressive tone, why I suck at the game, basing this on the fact that I’m exaggerating the issue with sound system problems because it works fine for you. Which logically means that I’m lying about said issues to make myself look better.
Then you accuse me of dishonesty and not addressing any of your points. How could I if they in no way relate to what I wrote? I talk about problems with the sound system and how it undermines the special mechanic, you give me a lecture about the importance of situational awareness. Hard to have a back and forth with someone preaching at you. And on top of all that, you completely ignore the fact that I outright stated having no problems with multiple special/disabler spawn. I feel calling a strawman is fully justified in this instance.
Don’t worry about my feelings thought, I can handle text on a screen, better than instant hookrats.
I concede that you do have a point. I am however talking about bugs that make the existing system feel unfair in a unintended way, IMHO. Probably should have made it more clear, judging by the other responses in the thread.
I am curious where would you place me on the scale of “difficulty bias”, since I both enjoy games like Dark Souls that are 100% “leranable”, to a point you can reduce the chance of failing to almost 0, and then I also like Roguelikes, like the aforementioned Invisible Inc., where you can get an easy map and breeze through it, or the map generator can screw you over royally and you go down at the very beginning, even if there was a ideal set of moves that would result in victory. Guess the division is not that clear cut for me. But that’s off-topic.
Well, no. This was intended to allow people to keep playing on Veteran if Veteran is their jam without barring them from finishing hero power progression.
Uh-huh. Maybe, just maybe, not everyone has had this experience you describe? I certainly haven’t. Total ragequits witnessed: 0.
They’re actually not asking you to give them more money. They’re offering you an opportunity to buy more content. You can simply decline this opportunity. It’s quite easy to do.
In summary… I think you should just take a break, man. If you don’t want to recommend the game then go ahead and don’t recommend the game. You could also try presenting your misgivings about the game with a little less drama. It’s hard to discuss your points constructively when you start off with so much conviction.
Yeah, Agreed completely on this. It’s almost always the execution/implementation/iteration. Some really stupid game ideas have become really fun games.
The context of the conversation is where that came into play. Your original reply was to a comment I made regarding special spam…which was directly referencing the original post. The original post directly complains about special spam as a gameplay concept. I dealt with it in context and it seems you went off in a bit of a different direction. Likely because I had not used quotes on that particular comment.
Just as you stated, it’s alot more fluid for me. In essence my original response was saying that special spam is not an issue, at least not in the context of the original post where they directly say “Dumping a ton of disablers to wipe a team that otherwise was making perfect runs shouldn’t occur”. Even if perhaps special spam could still be tweaked to be more engaging.
Essentially the OP was exemplifying the idea of “this difficulty caused me to lose so I’m going to call it cheap” because they were otherwise making perfect runs. In fact, they seem to blame every single loss on a game balance issue or bug. The greatest irony is, with how they’ve presented on the forums, the resulting “fixed” game would have quickly gotten boring for them as the difficulty was otherwise not an issue for them at all.
But this is exactly what’s happening. Specials are spawning in right on top of the team or immediately around the corner from any direction. They’re spawning one after another, and several at a time. IDC if the patchnotes said it was “reduced” because that’s not what I’ve seen from the ~20 missions I’ve played since last night. Almost half of those games (if not more) have specials spamming during hordes during bosses all on top of patrols appearing from behind. I can hear audio queues when they play. It’s when they don’t play or there’s far too many at the same time that is the underlying issue. Idk what headset you have that can hear queues (especially when they dont’ exist at some times) for the specials over the roar of a horde, but I don’t have them.
The audio queues for everything is buggy right now. It seems worst with specials, but I’ve had hordes and even bosses waltz right up without the audio queue playing. That part sucks and definitely needs fixing, and honestly I don’t think we can really make judgements about the frequency of special spawning until it’s fixed.
I just want some cosmetics. Reds tend to be glowy and hopefully cool
But yes, some people really, really want loot, and it will cause problems. Though I don’t personally play much Champion, that is where a lot of the playerbase will be, including those fixated on loot
Making fun things such as cosmetics and red gear potentially accessible to many players is a necessary move, since otherwise most players would miss out on some fun, but it does seem that in its current iteration the loot system in Champion will promote toxicity
I hope they bring the contract board (or similar) back and that will help solve some of this. I always appreciated it in V1 because it was a way to get reds and cosmetics without having to do full book runs and then hope Ranald was feeling generous.
Pal, I’m not doing sarcasm and I’m asking seriously.
“Can you bear all of this grind without reward or progress or improvement?”
My personal answer for this tbh if this game didn’t look LIKE a loot grinder I wouldn’t buy it.
All I read here is that you are getting tired of dying with a grim, especially due to specials, and being told to go F yourself by the rest of the team. Because, apparently having better chances for reds is somehow at fault for that. Sure…
I care about endgame content, not loot. I played a lot l4d2 and there was no loot at all. But you will play it for content and challenge. I play only legend for the challenge now, and I dont care about reds or cosmetics, even if i have some of them. so what you are asking is wrong. I dont play to grind, I play to have fun with friends. So yes i dont care about progress and so on.
At some point you are right.
If game was working perfectly and would everything in balance; then yes you are right.
But game is poorly designed and coded and I even don’t want to talk about balance issues.
Btw I must to admit I am NOT in regret for buying and playing (Preordered Deluxe thingy.) I’m only in regret because I recommend this game to a friend of mine and he even didn’t play till top power level. So I think I owe him a game…
That’s because you have proper expectations for the game. Expecting a Diablo style satisfying progression experience from this game would be like expecting that from a multiplayer shooter. Yes, they have leveling and weapon unlocks and attachments these days. But we’re not playing a multiplayer shooter for that progression. It’s window dressing for the main reason we’re playing the game.
People would be similarly disappointed if they approached one of those multiplayer shooters like that. Or even their own horde modes like Call of Duty Zombies. Vermintide is not a Warframe style game and it never will be. It’s a Left 4 Dead style game.
Well, that’s the trend now and we will not do anything about it.
Honestly nothing prevents the game from entering into it a bit. If customers want better loot, skins, hats etc. why not give them it?
Yeah, how dare this people to have fun getting gear gear and decent rewards for their efforts. Let’s make em leave as soon as possible. Hunting for gear in a computer game! in 2k18!!! unbelievable!
Because any given game has a finite amount of resources and man hours and so games must pick a core aesthetic and design philosophy to commit to. This means that the bulk of your decisions and time need to be in service of that aesthetic/philosophy. Different teams may work on different things, but it all comes from a single pile of money. And that money isn’t just profit, it’s capital to invest in the next project Fatshark does. Some will go back into Vermintide 2 but alot will be for the next project one day…unless you want to start bowing to publishers and investors who will mess up your product.
As such, IMO, they should add a handful more cosmetics but it should always leave people who want things like that lacking. Instead of investing unduly in that they should do what they are doing and invest in more maps and at some point (couple DLCs down the line) they should cut their losses and move almost exclusively to bug/balance support so they can begin working on a new product.
If you want to see how important picking an Aesthetic/design philosphy is look no further than Bioware. For years it had a loving place in the game industry because it delivered on a core experience and did it well. They started getting better at other parts of the game with EA’s involvement, like the action…but at the cost of the very thing that made their mark: their story and characters. This is what happens when you water down a core aesthetic by overreaching…you can easily become a different kind of game that honestly is not what you are best at.
Obsidian Entertainment however went the opposite direction. They know they make dang fine CRPGs and they doubled down on that by using kickstarter to branch out on their own with their own world. Pillars of Eternity 1 was a great game, albeit a little unpolished as it was a new world with new systems/mechanics/classes. If they maintained their laser focus on their core aesthetic/design philosophy then Pillars of Eternity 2 will likely be one of the best CRPGs of it’s era. We shall see though. It’s easy to get lost in fan feedback and lose track of that all important focus.
This is not to say that they can’t add a few more cosmetics, skins, hats, etc. Just that every cosmetic also comes with an opportunity cost so their time should def be spent almost exclusively on other things. Especially since if you look at any comparable modern game, when you get more than a few options skin-wise you get monetization systems for said skins.
