I think that’s another thing about the perception of Fatshark. Some people do think Fatshark has dug themselves into a fairly deep hole, and even when they going are in a, charitably, upwards direction they tend to be still underground.
This is where I’m at now.
Last year they did generally enter an upward trajectory with finally fixing itemization and making some often-requested improvements, and while they were somewhat slow and I didn’t agree with Havoc or Mortis being things that needed to take up dev time…stuff was improving. It wasn’t enough to dig them out of the hole of the past two years but it was better. Even game balance was getting looked at, which to me was a really good sign. They weren’t out of the hole but they were on the way out if they had simply continued listening, improved the biggest problems in the game, and kept up the pace.
And then no Aquilas after skulls, Arbites breaking game balance over its knee, going back to bugs being reintroduced with every patch and ‘hotfix’, and Strawhat’s departure leaving a giant gaping hole in comms just before their Mandatory Two Month Surprise Vacation, during which Arbites was literally broken.
And now utter silence. We know nothing about what’s coming and they refuse to tell us.
So now the hole is getting deeper and there’s no end in sight. Good job, Fatshark.
I think Fatshark has gotten “better” at deploying bad PR and engagement practices. As in they’ve gotten better at not putting their foot in their own mouth by not saying anything in the first place.
Did you know that Vermintide 2 actually had some opt-in beta testing for critical patches in the past to gather feedback and work out bugs? Or that they used to post details about changes early enough to solicit and adapt to feedback?
There’s been a bit of that with DT, mostly related to the crafting rework. But even their Q&A responses omitted critical details (ie about the swap to the new mastery) that weren’t unearthed until the patch was live and there was some HUGE blow back (including review bombs) forcing them to take action.
So no, I actually don’t think FS has actually gotten better from an engagement perspective. They’ve only managed to “get better” at being a black hole of communication and staying ever more silent. They’ve gotten better at not communicating and better at avoiding controversy - to frustration of many of us.
Edit: I’d rather have communication and sharing of direction/vision even if it leads to broken promises so long as there is some communication about it and why plans changed or couldn’t be met. At least there is an effort at engagement in this scenario. Professional developers should have the maturity to weather and navigate the upset, reactionary, comments in order to maintain lines of communication.
Even though I noped out after the OBT due to seeing the writing on the wall, I still came back as essentially fresh meat having never played a FS title (other than minimal time in VT2 after the free giveaway). And the state of release was so frucking normal for gaming in general, it didn’t paint FS particularly worse than anyone else for me.
So they had a nearly blank slate with me, ground level start, and all I’ve seen is 1 step forward, 2-10 steps back at any given moment.
Like I’ve said, whatever their numbers are must be working for them and we’ll likely never know the details. But they’ll also never know how much they could have made (both monetarily and industry cred) had they just a little more respect for their players.
And their future earning potential from my wallet is ~5% of what it otherwise could have been thanks to what I’ve seen.
I wish FS communicated more to get me hyped about upcoming stuff and to give us insights into their process (because that’s super interesting to me). But I don’t have any expectation that my $40 relationship with FS means they should be inviting me into their development process. We don’t have input into the development of almost anything we buy, including pretty much every game I’m familiar with. FS incorporates player feedback in many instances, and I think they do a pretty good job of that.
Our actual relationship with companies is that they make promises they either keep or don’t, they build products how they think they should be made to ensure the continued success of the company (something FS seems to have been doing well, which is my biggest concern behind having great games that I can actually play), and we decide if the products are worth purchasing.
The regular release schedule for DT is good. I think it has been pretty well-aimed at addressing player concerns that have a big impact (crafting, things to chase, more challenge for high-level players, more variety, a better first-time experience for new players, etc.). And it’s good that they’ve consistently delivered on it for 2+ years. And that makes the “contract” with them pretty clear to me: they’re going to stick to this schedule, they’re going to keep improving things for years, and I’m going to keep having new stuff to do.
And I accept the contract. I think it’s reasonable and that it works for me. I don’t expect aquilas with every monthly event. I don’t expect zero bugs. Although I think it’d be good for the players/game/company (based on my personal preferences and complete lack of knowledge of their internal data/goals/etc.) to fix the FOMO shop, I don’t expect it. And I don’t expect to be included in internal processes.
But all of the stuff I do expect (that they keep hitting the quarterly updates, keep addressing major issues, keep working on the game for years, and keep listening to feedback) is being delivered pretty successfully imo.
They prioritize blogs about the staff’s pets over actually telling people what’s happening in the game. This is why I have a problem with them. For a moment I hoped that whatever devblog was upcoming would put paid to this thread and make me eat crow, nah, they’ve apparently spent the past two months doing nothing and have nothing of substance to discuss.
Zero bugs? No one said that. It’s the same bugs, the same type of bugs, the undocumented changes, the weird design choices that muddy the distinction between design and bug. The only thing I care about their internal processes is why those issues keeps cropping up. I don’t even want to know, except as a case study, I just want them to improve them. Even if players are at the bottom or not even considered stakeholders by the studio, it’s still abysmal that they treat their customers this way.
Standards are subjective, but having them low enough that you’re forgiving and downplaying other people’s concerns about so many issues the development has doesn’t help Fatshark nor the customers.
Ugh.
Zero bugs, few bugs, ever-fewer bugs, only-unique-bugs-plz, frame it however you want. Every game has bugs, including recurring bugs. Most of the stuff you’re bringing up isn’t (imo) as prevalent or serious as you seem to think it is. And I’m not in a minority. If players truly felt they were being treated abysmally, and if this stuff was actually as major of a problem as some people paint it as, the game wouldn’t be doing better than VT2, the reviews wouldn’t be 70% positive, etc. etc.
Helldivers 2 is buggy af and catches flak for it all the time, but they never shut up and constantly have new things happening, so people let it slide.
Plus, you know, a good launch and a track record of listening to players.
Things Fatshark doesn’t have.
So? You’re implying people experiencing problems doesn’t matter? That as long as you’re satisfied you don’t care for people criticising Fatshark for anything? The recurring crashes where people can’t even play the game? The odd decision to not really incorporate their current flagship DLC character into their cosmetic ecosystem? The shoddy performance? Just because your and the “majority’s” standards are low enough to be satisfied doesn’t mean people who want things to be a bit better have to be silenced. Sure, the core gameplay of Darktide is good, it doesn’t excuse the dross around it.
Double ugh. Jeez man, we were actually having a conversation here for a minute where we both engaged with each other in normal way, not trying to twist each other’s words or take the dimmest view of each other’s arguments.
No, I don’t think that people experiencing problems doesn’t matter. I think performance/crashes/server instability is a major issue, and I think it’s clear FS is continually working on that, even if they don’t do a perfect job.
But I don’t care about Arbites not having cosmetics yet. It is imo a minor complaint.
And I’m not “silencing” anyone by expressing my opinions. Grow up.
Thank you, I wanted you to make that clear because the way you frame almost all your replies is that it sounds like you’re dismissing people’s criticisms, even if you’re not intending to. While some things don’t matter to you, they can and do matter to other people and your (perceived) flippant disregard of it is very, very easily viewed as trying to dismiss, deflect or downplay criticism. You point to specific examples, but almost always ignore that it’s a pattern of repeating and endemic behaviour that is getting criticised.
How is going essentially, “I don’t care” in a thread supposed to help anybody?
How are any of these threads supposed to help anybody anywhere? It’s a discussion forum. I’m discussing. It’s not a zero-sum game.
If you think that posting anything here doesn’t help anyone anywhere, then it just looks to me like saying “I don’t care” even more of a waste of energy than someone laying out issues one has with something or writing a guide or practically anything else in the forum, that’s all.
That’s fine. It’s not your energy being wasted!
There is definitely some of my energy wasted when I read a thread littered with posts that amount to, “I don’t care”.
Acting like I am forcing you to read my posts or respond to me is the same kind of weird, wrong-headed thinking that made you claim I’m silencing people by expressing my opinions.
Just skip my nonsense if you want to.
Maybe it’s because thread subject interests me somewhat and I read the posts on it?
So while the Barktide post is amusing in of itself, outside of itself as a vacuum, it’s a pretty tone-deaf way of communicating where they say nothing about the game itself and the last mention of anything for the future of the game was either vague and 3 months ago, or more specific but 10 months ago.
Doesn’t mean you have to read my contributions, especially if you think they have no value and just sap your energy. S’all good.
The Barktide post is a bummer because I was hoping for news on the next update, but I don’t have a problem hanging tight for another few weeks. I know something is cooking so long as they keep hitting that release schedule as planned.
There’s something tonedeaf about this week’s blog, considering the previous years we have already had a teaser for the fall update and a good idea of the changes to come by this time. They couldn’t even put a schizoid vox trailer in of nonsense/content they never plan on adding. Also we get pictures of cats and dogs before the veteran weapon.