Engines of war event, Feedback

I played the first vermintide, and in that game, I really liked engines of war as a level. It was hard in that it made you endure quite a lot, but it was also fair in its own way.

I do not like engines of war as a level in vermintide 2. So much so that I think I’m just going to bail on the map if it pops up… and that has never been an inclination of mine before. It suffers from the same problem as horn of magnus only more so: it has everything to do with the gunpowder event. For lack of a better word I’d say, it doesn’t translate well. Handling the events with the new specials, and the introduction of regular waves of plague rats, makes the level feel cheesy and broken to me.

I feel like my parties tend to tank at these events, in a way that I’m not familiar with. And it doesn’t feel like we go down because of our own stupidity–rather, the activity of the event leads to conditions where one of us will be killed, and then a cascade of death happens suddenly, and it’s rather difficult to recover from it. Usually it’s an interaction between the gas rats and the plague rats, or a ratling and the plague rats, or blight stormers and plague rats – that and the fact that the hordes of plague rats will keep coming.

I bet if you took a heat map of deaths in vermintide 2 maps, this map/area would have more terminations than the skittergate finale. I find it difficult in a very cheesy way, and it actively prevents me from enjoying a map that I used to like quite a great deal. For me, the issue is how the plague rats interact with other elements in the event; I’m not sure whether this could be fixed with change in spawning frequency? I really don’t know. But as it stands, I do not like this level.

The trick is to stay together. It’s kinda like the ending event of Garden of Morr. People often split up immediately and get overwhelmed by plague rats. If you stay together, it all goes much smoother.

It’s funny how polarising particular parts of maps can be. I like this map because of the event that makes you dislike it.

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In principle, I get you. For the record, I’m playing on champ and legend. Let me try to explain why the maps are different.

Garden of moor has a huge open center; there are multiple elevations, but in general, you are able to see enemies coming, and you are able to help allies that have gone down. All the supports run along the sides, and usually there’s more than one path (in a vertical sense) that can be taken to each support.

Engines of war has an open event, with a large occluded center. To reach each of the three targets, you will end up taking a 90 degree turn in some form or another. Furthermore, the task is not simply destroying a target but escorting a barrel a distance, with the expectation that each target will be surrounded by 3 elites with armor. The combination of the 90 degree turns and the occluded center, mean that you lose line of sight to your allies almost constantly. Furthermore, the central area is much smaller, so enemies can drop down and close ground much more quickly with much less warning. Finally, the garden finale doesn’t require you to constantly backtrack, nor does it require you to perform an escort. These are significant, structural differences.

As each map is a translation from the first, I am inclined to say, Gardens of Morr translates the best, followed by horn of Magnus, followed by Engines of War. If you were to rank the new maps in terms of preference, would your order be different?

Well I didn’t play V1, so I can’t comment there. Out of the BtU maps I’d put HoM first, EoW second, and GoM third. HoM is one of the best maps (if not THE best map) in the game right now, imo.

I can’t argue with what you said except to say that all of it makes up some very good reasons to stick together. Line of sight problems? Carting the barrel? Dealing with the armor at the dropoff point? Enemies dropping on your head? All issues that are much less imactful if the whole team is moving as a unit.

All that said, getting pubbies to stick together is like herding cats.

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I utterly despise this event. It’s just too hard to be fun. I’m a good enough player to survive it but the process isn’t enjoyable because it’s too intense.

Event like these are support to have a sort of “tempo” to them. You kill a few rats, then you have a few seconds to line up a shot against a special, or move into a good position to engage the next group of rats. Think-Act-Think-Act etc. The Engines event is more like drowning, rats constantly spawn at a steady trickle from ALL directions. They pop out of the ground with no warning and there are so many of them that from start to finish there isn’t a single 3-second stretch of free time where you can stop and THINK about anything. This results in a constant mental “burn”, the same way your muscles feel when you carry something heavy.

I think they should make the spawns wave based and limit them to spawning from one direction at a time instead of everywhere at once.

All of the three Ubersreik maps were made somewhat more intense when translating them to VT2. Partially, that’s because of the general style changes between the two games, but a quite a few players have been asking also for more challenging content for a while already - and still are.

I’m not saying anything about the general changes, but they certainly might have gone a bit overboard on Engines. While encouraging team play is good, there is difference between that and having no breathing room. In Engines, the enemies (including the very dangerous Plague Monks) come out constantly, leaving hardly any room to even move the barrels before a new rat is poking your back. It’s not much room that is needed, a few seconds between every few enemy batches would be quite enough.

Then again, when you learn to consistently survive the kind of odds that always destroyed you before is quite satisfying, and it certainly is possible here. As others said, you need to step up your teamplay, and stay together.

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I agree with all of your sentiments. As a player, there are times when I meet up with my friends, and there are times where I’m just pressing quickplay. That said, recently I was on a team that just finished skittergate on legend, only to totally die at engines of war.

To be specific, I think we died while trying to move the first barrel. It’s the waves of vermin on all sides, with the constant plague rats peppering them that really makes the map unpleasant. I don’t even recall us being spread thin: two escorts with the barrel, one of us holding the “doorway”. Let’s be real… given the game an the setting, we’re in the market for kinda unpleasant… kinda being the active word.

So, fortunes of war and some of the more intense deeds may require open mic communication between players. However, the mechanics of the game is such that you can only enter into these maps intentionally (with a team). I don’t think it’s appropriate for a standard map to require the same level of communication, because frankly, we have no control over the group we’re placed within quickplay.

This is my subjective option… Engines of War is my least favorite map; the main problem I have with it is the event; If it doesn’t change, I will probably bail on matches where it loads – I have never been of that disposition before (barring RNG instances where maps seem to play constantly).

I think it is kind of silly that the waves of enemies are endless and constantly spawning but Engines of War is pretty easy to do just obnoxious, I have bigger issue with the Horn of Magnus final event just because it feels 10x longer than it did in v1, I find myself just standing there for awhile as stuff slowly trickles in and its just really boring to be stuck in the same spot for so long. However, I also thought Gardens of Moor and Engines were 2 of the worst V1 maps, so im bias against them in general.

I agree that the event of Engines of War is an outlier in terms of difficulty. As you say, it’s relentless and overwhelming. I also agree that it should probably be reined in a little to make it more “of a piece” with the rest of the maps.

With that said, I enjoy that event. It’s reminiscent of playing a “more waves” deed in that you need to adapt to always moving/fighting under pressure instead of during lulls. I think I’d like to see more events get tuned UP to be more intense at the same time that they tune Engines down a little.

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the most annoying thing is monks spawn in ur face…

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