This game needs some love to keep it going and make the solo experience more viable. (very long)

List of suggestions at the end.

After 900 hours of Vermintide 2 I decided to install the original and poke around a bit. Mostly because I wanted to check out the maps and how the game is different from the sequel. Unfortunately this game is nearly dead from lack of players, playing solo is possible with the bot improvements from the QoL mod, but the lack of 3 other humans causes some problems with game balance because there are things that bots can’t do.

There are two closely related main problems as I see it:

  1. Collection and destruction objectives are designed for multiple players and don’t scale
  2. Horde frequency during collection and destruction events assume the max number of players

Simply put, any mission that involves collecting barrels/grain or breaking chains is horrible when played solo. In the time it takes a full party to shift 2 barrels, it can take a single human player 4-8 times as long or even more than that to accomplish the same thing. Since you can’t carry a barrel and fight a horde at the same time what tends to happen is you can only carry a barrel about 20 feet before you must drop it and fight an entire horde wave before you can pick it up again. The last time I tried to play black powder solo I was only on my way back to the second barrel when it dropped the first rat ogre on me.

Breaking chains is similarly frustrating. The HP of each chain is obviously designed with 4 players in mind, it’s not like in VM2 where it only takes a hit or two. It is simply agonizing to handle them solo, you have to sit there and swing your weapon for 20 seconds or more, but you might not even finish the job before the next wave of horde hits you. So not only does everything take 4 times as long but you also have to fight 4 times more enemies than a full party of players!

I just played through the second map in Death on the Reik and it simply broke me. This picture pretty much sums it all up. At this point I had already broken about 8 chains by myself while fighting an entire horde in between each chain. So I was already at the end of my rope in terms of health and sanity when the game drops this final challenge. Carry 3 barrels about 20 feet, simplest thing in the world, a human party could do it in less 10 seconds.

I got halfway across with the first barrel before the horde was upon me, every bot on my team died to a single stormvermin because the AI just can’t cope with fighting this many rats in tiny area like this. I managed to kill the first wave almost entirely by myself but it took so long that I only had time to pick up one bot before the second wave poured in. I was quickly alone again and no matter how fast I clicked my mouse I could not physically kill the rats faster than they spawned in thus making the mission impossible. All I could do was get crushed like a cockroach and watch 30 minutes of effort go down the drain.

The experience left me so frustrated that I don’t think I’m ever going to play this game again or even think about buying the DLC unless I see some major changes made.

It’s clear that Vermintide 1 will never again see the player numbers it was designed for in it’s current state and it needs to be rebalanced to reflect that fact. I HAVE attempted to play with live humans a few times but it’s been a mixed bag to put it mildly. Most of the time when I look there isn’t a single open lobby in north america, even if I widen the search to the entire world there might only be 2-3 lobbies without a password and all of them Easy or Normal. In my first coop game on Horn there were two level 3 players and one level 326 player. I already know all of the core game mechanics as well as the book locations for that level, but the new players clearly did not. They kept walking past health kits and books without picking them up and could tell the veteran was getting frustrated with them, he not join us for the next map in the rotation. Later on I attempted to host a lobby myself. After completing several maps solo I finally got one player to join near the end of Engines. He took over my saltzpyre bot and immediately ran off on his own, backtracking almost a third of the map just to find a health potion. He promptly drank it and left the tome he was carrying behind. I’m going to be generous here and assume that he didn’t do that on purpose, but nevertheless all of my games since then have been private.


So what can be done to make the game better? Here’s a list of ideas in no particular order:

  • When a map objective involves breaking chains allow bots to attack the chains under certain conditions. It could be as simple as “bots will attack a chain if the player pings it and there are no rats around”. If that’s too complicated then just give the player a chain damage multiplier based on how many human players are in the game, solo player = 4x, two players = 2x, 3 players 1.3x.

  • Bots should have the ability to pick up barrels and grain sacks if you ping them. If an enemy gets close to them they will drop the barrel a short distance behind them to hopefully keep it out of harms way before engaging. Since bots can teleport they would only pick an item up if you are already carrying one to keep things fair, if you drop yours they will too. This is not foolproof or nearly as fast as 4 players would handle the same situation, but it would be a vast improvement on the current solo experience.

  • Horde frequency should be slightly reduced in solo games to account for the bots being generally inferior to players, especially during collection events.

  • There are a lot of bot issues. The first is the fact that bots suffer from tunnel vision. In VM2 if an enemy gets within 5 feet of a bot they will immediately attack it, or possibly shoot it. In VM1 it seems like bots will only react to things in a frontal cone, if an enemy walks up behind them they will ignore it until it hits them. This is unacceptable, especially on higher difficulties where that hit could easily kill them. (NOTE: I am playing with the QoL modpack, the bots are even worse without it)

  • Bots are utterly incapable of handling gunners in an intelligent manner. Very rarely they will simply shoot the gunner in the face the moment it appears. But what usually happens is all three bots pick a spot of cover and crowd into it like scared rabbits. If they just happen to be facing the wall when they do this the previous bug will allow the horde to surround and kill them almost effortlessly.

  • Bots can’t handle stormvermin in mixed hordes. If a single stormvermin walks up to a bot they will engage it with the proper attacks and dodge it’s swings. If the bot is already fighting other rats they will completely ignore the stormvermin entirely despite the greater threat, what tends to happen is the stormvermin does a single overhand attack and kills them in one hit unless they happen to be blocking at that moment in which case the second one gets them.

  • Bots do not use ranged weapons enough against hordes. They will typically only fire at specials and at “random” when they feel like gunning down ambient rats. In VM2 this would be fine because player power is higher in general and you have ults, but in VM1 thinning out a horde as it approaches is essential for survival. This issue also makes certain weapons like blunderbuss almost useless in bot hands because they never use them in horde situations.

  • It’s impossible to tell specific bots to pick things up, which can be a concern if you tell the bots to pick up a grim and you want kruber to carry it because he has a shield for tanking. Healing items are also annoyingly random. This issue could be solved by porting in the same ping context menu than VM2 has.

  • This last one may be a quirk of the QoL mods but I find that bots are extremely hesitant to stand in front of the player, to the point that they will remain glued behind the player like a backpack and studiously ignore everything attacking the player just a few feet away. They need to have a longer leash to engage things in the nearby vicinity as they do in VM2.

  • The loot progression needs to be sped up in general, VM1 is effectively a legacy game behind VM2 now and it doesn’t need the same length of progression it once had. Even with the quests and contracts system it would take hundreds of hours of play to get a full set of fully upgraded exotics on each character, to say nothing of collecting all trinkets and reds. With the current playerbase almost exclusively playing solo that’s not as practical as it was during the game’s heyday. It’s especially hard to swallow for players already used to VM2’s revamped loot and crafting system, which causes them to bounce off and go back to VM2 or just play something else.
    -First off double or even triple the loot players get per mission, dice rolls determine which tier of reward is available and the player is then allowed to select any unlocked reward as his first item instead of always getting the highest one. The second or possibly third items are then randomly picked from the remaining unlocked items. This keeps the current RNG based system relatively intact but greatly reduces the overall grind needed to progress in the game. The point of this is to get new players quickly up to speed so that they can comfortably run Hard difficulty and up without feeling underequipped or discouraged.

  • If a player owns a DLC that gives a new weapon allow it to drop from any mission reward pool instead of those specific to the DLC.

  • The trinkets that increase loot drops for a particular character should stack. If you and the three bots all have the same character’s trinket it should give a correspondingly higher chance of getting equipment for that character (but still not 100%). In addition to this, for every 4 of the trinkets you bring into a mission it gives you an extra bone dice at the end for playing with a handycap. If the combined dice roll higher than 7 you get one extra item from the reward list.

  • Expand the the Quest and Contracts system to give players more choices. Allow players to accept three different quests at once and reduce the number of keys required to unlock quests. Players should expect to be able to complete at least 3 quests a week, kind of like how Bogenhaven chests work in VM2. Finally allow players to reroll the terms of one mission per day, this changes the objective but not the reward or the map so you can’t unlock a DLC mission or lose a key by doing this. You could also use that daily reroll on a mission you have already accepted if you are having trouble with it or don’t find it to be fun.


Lastly, integrating VM1 and VM2 together would take the most work but also provide the most benefit in terms of longevity for both games. People who have only played one of the games would have an incentive to purchase and play the other, which supports the playerbase of both games and drives sales to support Fatshark itself. There is some small precedence for this as simply owning VM1 unlocks the classic hero outfits in VM2. Ideally both playerbases would combine and have compelling reasons to regularly play both VM1 and VM2. Some ideas:

  • For players who own both games allow them to transfer small amounts of crafting materials back and forth. Scrap and green/blue/orange dust would convert into the corresponding crafting material and vice versa. This transfer would have a weekly limit so you can’t just dump your pile of 1000 orange dust into VM1 and unlock everything. For players making the jump from one game to another for the first time this helps speed up the least fun part of the game which is the initial grind with white items (or 5 power items). For veteran players this would also give them an incentive to regularly play a bit of both each week as you can do daily missions in one game and use the rewards to progress in the other.

  • The previous suggestion would also support any eventual deed crafting system in VM2. Players who want the 500 deed portrait or just an extra challenge in general are probably VM1 veterans with lots of materials they can’t use for anything.

  • Add achievements and awards to VM1 that carry over into VM2. One of the main criticisms of VM2 is the slow drop rate for hats. So maybe if you unlock a hat in VM1 you could accomplish a difficult challenge while wearing that specific hat, which then unlocks it in VM2. This gives players an escape from the pure RNG of VM2’s drop system while also providing them with an additional challenge.

  • Similarly to the hat situation, one major cause of irritation in the VM2 playerbase is the RNG surrounding red items. Getting a red to drop is not that hard, however getting one specific red is extremely difficult, particularly for weapons with multiple illusions. Some of those glow skins are based off of weapon models from VM1, I believe there is an opportunity here to integrate the two games. Just like with the hats you could add achievements specific to red items in VM1 that involve difficult challenges, once you manage to find that red as a drop and complete the challenge in VM1 you then receive that red item in VM2 and unlock the illusion on it. If you already have that specific red you instead get 5 red dust to make a red item out of something else.

  • One thing that would greatly increase the longevity of VM1 is porting weapons like the Halberd, Pick, Flail and Spear backwards from VM2 into VM1. (Sienna doesn’t get a new melee weapon VM2 but I guess you could port back the Flamestorm staff instead) This would require considerable effort, not necessarily in terms of art assets but to balance the weapons for damage and general utility in a different system. I think it would be worth it because being able to use those weapons in conjunction with VM1’s very different set of traits and trinkets would offer a whole new experience. It would also tie into the illusion unlock system I mentioned above.

3 Likes

Oops, I accidentally set the steam screenshot to private instead of public, it’s fixed now.

hi, im running about 1500 hours in vermintide 1.

https://steamcharts.com/app/235540 is the user charts for the game. as you can see there is NEVER a point that NO ONE was playing - there are always some players around.
if you live in the outback of australia you might need to widen your search to “far” or “global” in finding games others are hosting but otherwise you should be able to find a game.

i run cata runs with my bots on a regular basis. generally the bots are idiots but sometimes they beat having a human player – the only maps that is definitely not true and that it is almost always better to have other players running the map with you are on
-summoners peak (the bots dont care about protecting generators from water rats)

  • well watch (the bots dont care about rats poisoning the wells)
  • river reik (the bots arent too helpful with breaking the chains and the longer they arent broken = more rats flooding the ship)
    no, bots do NOT help with collection or destruction of items. however, bots also dont go running off on their own (generally speaking) nor do they friendly fire you in the back til you are dead (looking at you players who main the elf). carrying barrels (black powder) is much easier when you have a group of bots surrounding you although it is also slower (and safer) than everyone running off to grab a barrel and splitting the group up.

black powder is one of those levels that is actually easier to run with bots unless you have a decent or better group of humans. in other words it is a level that a lower level player joining and doing stupid/inexperienced stuff can easily result in a wipe out on the mission run.

you are correct that horde frequency isnt dependent upon the number of human players BUT the number of rats in the horde IS. meaning the game DOES scale up in difficulty somewhat as more and more human players join the group’s run. so in breaking chains (such as in white rat or man the ramparts) you are getting LESS rats than if you were in a full group of four players.

the secret to river reik is strength potions. when you face to the front of your boat to your left is always where the ai boat comes first. right before it ties up to your boat one of the team will say something (always) and that is your cue to strength pot and beat the chains fast on that side so that boat goes away leaving you with just the boat on the other side to deal with. most groups bring 2 strength pots (for boat set 2 and boat set 3) and a speed (for the run out) as their ideal potion set up going into the boats. the last set of boats is quite tough because you will always have a horde at your back as you deal with the first boat. bombs. you should have gotten 2-3x bombs at the house not long before the boat and this is where you use them (except one for the run out). the level isnt all that hard. the problem is that you dont have 100s or 1000s of hours in the game to have figured out where to stand. what gear to bring, the optimal use of pots and bombs, etc.

but i repeat, you are fighting LESS enemies than if you played as a group.
river reik is a very hard map to do in a less than good group but is one very, very easily done with just bots. its just requires experience which you do not have at this point. i run this map on cata solo and its rare a bot goes down, much less dies.

there are levels legit rough on bots . for instance on drachenfels when you grab the chalice and drop you better run towards the gates ignoring enemies or your bot(s) will stand up there near the trap door and die instead of coming to you

i really have to disagree that the game needs to be changed or “rebalanced”. if you want to pew pew and feel like a god whacking your enemies into pulp then play vermintide 2. if you want to get paranoid as hell because there are ALWAYS rats sneaking up behind you to stab you in the back and threatening to put an end to you then play vermintide 1. it really is that simple.

it is ironic that you are complaining that you cant get experienced players to play with you and after a few attempts of playing with the “masses” your games are now set on private. lol. i understand and sorta start off each day as “ill open up my game and help others and because bots arent as fun as other humans” and usually wind up as “im only going to play with players that know how to play so all my games will be private”.

as to your suggestions -

  • when you have 50 more levels in game then you will know where to go and when to rush breaking the chain and when to stop after a few whacks, kill the horde, and then finish off the chain. the only time chains will ever give you problem at that point is on river reik and ONLY with the 3rd time the boats come (when there are 3 boats and the barrels appear). this is an experience issue not a game difficulty issue for you.

  • barrels and sacks. you can move 2 by yourself with almost the same speed as moving one. pick up, throw, grab next, repeat. its a trade off though. your bots are protecting you while you move them vs other humans are maybe not watching your back while you carry. this is a constant issue with lower level or “bad” players on supply and demand.

  • horde strength is based, largely, upon how many human players there are. you are getting weaker hordes by playing solo.

  • the dev’s deliberately made the bots bad in order to encourage human interaction and teamwork. they have said they are considering improving them due to lower numbers of human players. idk if they are ever going to actually do it.

  • QOL offers settings for how the bots handle gunners. neither is optimal but gunners arent a serious problem.

  • you are right, bots dont handle multiple sv or sv and groups of other rats well. thats where YOU come in. you need to do things that increase their survival. for instance. a shield bash or push can focus a sv onto you.

  • bots do fire at hordes. they tend to use ranged weapons on them when you, yourself, use ranged weapons on an approaching horde. yes. some weapons in the hands of a bot are not optimal

  • true. i would love to be able to tell kruber bot to get the grim because hes on full health and has a shield vs salz who is almost dead.

  • i find the exact opposite to be the case. i have a bot almost always in front of me blocking my shots and it takes some manuever to actually be able to shoot incoming pack rats or assassins.

  • it will take more than a few 100s of hours to get all reds. lol. the funny thing is though that most of the vt1 players LIKE the system better in vt1 than in 2. the biggest gripe towards vt2 is that the players are overpowered, get given way too much crap way too easily, and the fighting system is not as “realistic”. your suggestions would just turn vt1 into 2 and for the most part the players of 1 arent interested in 2 and cite the very changes you want as reasons they dont play 2. if you want all reds then you need to grind. executioner sword is going to be rough, get used to it. if you need orange materials then start grinding out nightmare level runs.

these ideas of porting over building materials or getting 2-3x loot or being able to better manipulate which type of loot you get etc = attempts to game the system. in vt1 you can use more or less any weapon you want and there are lots of really interesting and viable weapons and traits they can be given and lots of players enjoying trying out different stuff whereas in vt2 there is the meta weapons and traits and skills and players tend to gravitate towards them and boot players that dont as being unviable. welcome to another difference in the gaming communities.

i mean … the game has trinkets that let you help push the game towards granting you specific player gear. thats not good enough, instead you want them to stack to basically make it inevitable you get that gear. but even that isnt good enough. you want an addition reward for having played with this “handicap”. sounds like anything but a handicap to me…

the quest board would be nice if it had more items that people actually want vs crap that people melt for materials. but re-rolls, extra quests, make them easier … maybe its better you just stick to vt2 if you want to be overpowered and have an easy game… . the quest board is designed to nudge you to buy the dlc. fair enough. that you are getting anything or even have a quest board deserves a ty to fatshark because they used to not even have it and we did just fine without it.

i guess the over-whelming majority of your advice is to make vt1 like vt2 or tie them in together, mostly to make the game easier for you or to short cut hop over the beginning when you are weak and dont have the proper gear, etc. why not view them as they are - different games and that playing one game does not entitle you to a shortcut in the other.

i play everyday, about 2-3 hours a day of vt1. join in one of my games. play the game. stop trying to min/max your way to more power and instead just have fun.

You have valid points but, the game that you’ve played for 1500 hours isn’t the same as mine, I am starting with nothing and have few people to play with. Things that would be a cakewalk for you are nearly impossible with the bots I have to work with. They can barely handle playing on Hard let alone Cataclysm and are constantly bringing my runs to a crashing halt because of things totally outside my control.

The point I’m trying to make with this thread is that fatshark needs to do something to make the game more practical as a singleplayer game because it effectively is one at this point. I am willing to get gud, I’m just not willing to grind thousands of missions by myself in a game balanced for 4 human players. It’s just not fun or practical at this point in the game’s lifespan.

Just because there ARE people playing doesn’t mean that the game has a viable population. Last I checked the number of people online was 28 and the population has been dropping almost every month since last march. Over 80% of the games I see on the list are private and even if they were not I would have to rule out an equal number of them anyway solely because of their high ping. If this trend keeps up no one will be playing VM1 at all in a year’s time. So in order to jump in and play a match whenever I want I will need to use bots more often than not, and the bots have limitations to put it mildly.

This is the first practical option Fatshark could pursue. Make the bots better to be roughly on par with a human player so that the division of labour is more like 50% Human-50% AI instead of the current split that feels more like 80-20 to me. Making the bots understand specific objectives or navigate around terrain issues would take more effort, but for general combat it would seem to be a matter of tweaking variable. They already know how to fight, they just make bad decisions or don’t react fast enough.

Even if it scales the hordes down it still doesn’t compensate for the breaking of all chains taking 4 times as long. When I lost on River Reik it was because I could not physically kill the rats faster than they spawned no matter how much I swung my sword, let alone do that AND have time to break chains and carry barrels on the side. Yeah potions are a potential solution, but I still think allowing bots to attack the chains on command or giving the player a multiplier is the best option here. That would let you leave the horde timings alone and just increase the number of rat spawns up to parity with a full party to compensate for the bots being smarter.

Plus breaking chains is boring! In a fast paced action game like this having to sit and click on an inanimate object for 15 seconds multiple times in a row feels like an eternity. It would feel much better to have the whole party chip in and break each objective in 3-4 seconds before getting back to the fun stuff like killing rats.

I’m not sure how you could change the multiple-defence objectives because it would be very difficult to dynamically split the party the same way humans could. But they should at least put more effort into defending them when nearby, the wells are particularly annoying because the rats are more focused on the well than they are the bots and the bots won’t react if the rats don’t attack them first.

There are many gamebreaking AI failures of this type. If bots engage a boss in a bad spot like a ledge they won’t follow you when you retreat to a better area and just die pointlessly. One memorable time I lost a run with full books on Horn just because a patrol was coming towards us and the bots got stuck on a door and wouldn’t go through it.

There is only so much I can do in this regard. Bots in VM2 don’t have this problem because if the surrounding enemies attack them faster than they can retaliate safely they will just default to holding block until someone can help them. In VM1 bots will reliably block and retaliate against a single target, but don’t care if they’re about to take an SV halberd to the side of the head if they’re already focused on something else. If they already solved this in VM2 it should be a simple matter of bringing the VM1 bots up to spec.

I’m no programmer but someone managed to mod a context menu into VM2 from scratch, and most VM2 mods are just VM1 QoL mods ported forwards with minor tweaks. It can’t be impossible to port VM2s context commands back into VM1 and they make running missions with bots a lot easier. If you make objectives like chains and wells pingable it could give you a way to split the party and defend multiple places at once as well as tell bots to return to your side when they get stuck or distracted. As mentioned earlier it would also let you choose which bots grabs what, including the ability to tell bots to pick up ammo bags which is currently impossible.


Will reply to the rest later when I have time.

Okay I’ve put in an additional 12 hours, mostly sticking to whatever contracts are up for the day. My experience doing this has just reinforced my initial impression. I have no one to play with and the bots have trouble tying their own shoes which forces me to pick up the slack. Certain missions just don’t scale properly to a single human and are overly tedious/frustrating.

Again, by rebalance I mean in the sense that finding 4 other humans to fight rats with is no longer a guarantee and the bots need to be an acceptable substitute. They don’t need to make the game easier, I can handle nightmare just fine it’s just that the bots can no longer keep up with me and/or keep making incredibly stupid mistakes that destroy otherwise perfect full book runs. For the most part bots can handle themselves, but every now and then something like this happens. Or they all zig instead of zag and fall off the same ledge together.

I’ve been doing daily contract missions exclusively for about a week and I started hosting open lobbies to see if anyone else would join. In that time I managed to get a single person, plus one more at the very end of the mission. When I tried to play today there was one joinable lobby in the entire world, a 1/4 player game hosted in Australia, which I passed on for obvious reasons. So it’s not totally impossible to find humans to play with, it’s just practically impossible.

IMO it’s still it’s a difficulty issue, it’s not that the rats are too strong or that there are too many of them. It’s mostly a matter of timing and how it doesn’t scale well to less players. A single person breaking all of the chains by themselves it will take roughly 4 times as long. On top of that the bots don’t kill as fast as humans and each horde wave will take longer to clear. In isolation neither problem is insurmountable when playing solo, but when you combine the two things can rapidly get out of hand.

As I mentioned earlier, simply allowing the bots to break chains and other destruction objectives would solve the problem. You can improve your chances by using potions to break the chains but if a party of humans don’t need potions to break the chains in reasonable time it shouldn’t be necessary with bots either.

It took me a few games to figure out the optimal method but I eventually got it. The best way to transport multiple sacks is to run past the sacks, then turn around and press E to pick it up from as far away as possible. Once you have a sack in hand you rotate 180 degrees and throw it forward, repeating for each other sack. This shifts the pile of sacks about 12 feet at a time which is much faster than only throwing them facing forwards.

This method doesn’t work as well with barrels because they have a tendency to roll away instead of remaining in a neat pile. So the “front crawl” method works better because you can toss and pick up a barrel before it has a chance to wander off.

Do you actually play VT2 or are you just repeating what someone told you? No one cares about meta except for small circles of players who play exclusively in private and people like jsat who are so good at the game that they have to mod in extra difficulty levels just to stave off boredom. In the pub queue people use whatever they want.

Also that may have been true of VT1 in it’s heyday but these days you have to plan around the bots. I find myself forced to use the more anti-armour focused weapons like handgun because bots can’t be trusted to deal with stormvermin on their own, low DPS crowd control weapons like shields just aren’t viable. That might change if I can get my bots full sets of fully traited orange gear, but that’s a long ways off.

Not just me personally, but for everyone who might pick up the game. I’d be willing to bet that the new player experience with bots is so bad that it makes people quit before they can get over the initial equipment grind, especially if they don’t have the QoL modpack. You can’t start experiencing VT1 the way it’s meant to be played with a complex interaction of weapons, traits and trinkets until you put in the time, and it looks like people are giving up. The few people I’ve managed to get into parties with in VT1 are sub level 5 with no idea of what they’re doing, or 200+ with almost nothing in between. People aren’t sticking around for long and it’s almost certainly because they have no one to play with.

The point of tying the games together isn’t to hand players an easy shortcut, it’s to give players a reason to play BOTH games at the same time. Thousands of people play VT2 on a daily basis whereas VT1 is practically dead. All it would take to revitalize VT1 is a couple hundred more daily players to hit that critical mass where you can hop into a lobby whenever you want. So forget the resource transfer idea and just focus on attracting some of those VT2 players, it would not take much to make people interested. There are more than a few players who are getting a bit tired of VT2 and waiting for the next expansion, if they had a reason to they could be playing VT1 right now. People love a challenge and if you give them a task to complete in VT1 that offers some reward like a hat or player portrait in VT2 that’s all the motivation they need.

It doesn’t all have to be one way either, if they added the new VT2 weapons back into VT1 for players to use if they own the second game it could provide hundreds of hours of new gameplay and give VT1 veterans a reason to return. The more people playing both games the more time Fatshark can justify spending on improvements like dedicated servers, workshop mod support for VT1, or even further DLC.

If you think that’s bad, try playing Verm 1 on Xbox. I can go long stretches without anyone joining on Verm 2 quickplays. Verm 2 Xbox is nearly dead on even weekend nights. But there’s nobody playing Verm 1 on console anymore.

The bots falling, etc is/was annoying. Eventually everyone (wellz most because some never seem to learn from repeatedly doing the same things over and over no matter what it is they are doing) learns not to take certain routes or go near certain areas because it doesn’t work well with bots.

Waterfront mission one of the warehouses you can go up and jump a few jumps to get to the next chain and bots tend to fall if you do.

There are still a few places on some of the maps that if YOU step there you are stuck and can’t get out of that place. So no the game definitely isn’t perfect.

But for the most part as you play and learn you will learn to avoid places you can get stuck in automatically and without anymore thought on it, it becomes instinctive. Similarly you will learn areas of the map that cause bots problems and you will learn different routes or methods to minimize or eliminate the problem.
In waterfront, for instance, people drop back into the middle and cross there vs taking the jumps that can kill the bots.

You don’t need people to play with. Again, I run many cats missions with just my bots and do just fine. What does hurt you is that you are reinventing the wheel by solo play, all the things the community learned through countless hours and pass on to each other is lost without human interaction.

Again, id suggest setting the search to world vs medium, and all vs open games to better find players and missions to run. I’m in Europe and play 2-3hrs a day and almost always have people join my runs.

I wouldn’t mind this so much if it was possible to recover from mistakes. But it tends to be all or nothing like a game of minesweeper. Either the bots perform just fine or they do something incredibly stupid that ends the mission on a dime. And even the minor mistakes can be extremely frustrating, I had a bot suddenly decide to ditch his tome for a healthkit even though I didn’t tell him to do it. That mission was the first time I rolled 6/7 dice, if bardinbot hadn’t left the tome behind there is a good chance I could have gotten the full 7.

Do you think it’s even possible to revive the community at this point or is it dead for good? Just looking at the global achievement stats about 20% of the people who own Vermintide have never played it. Of the 80% that have less than half have finished Act 1. Only 1.3% have ever equipped an executioner sword, which means the DLC hasn’t gotten much draw. And neither has the free DLC considering that only 2.3% of players have completed River Reik.

River Reik isn’t free but was a bonus to preordering/betaing V2.

Executioner sword isn’t easy to get, easily the most difficult red due to low book counts on the runs it drops on.

I add good players to steam friends. I have a list of about 70 people for the game. Maybe 40-50 still play regularly and maybe 20 of those are daily players. The rest come and go but I can see they are drifting away.

I think the game will be around a long time because its peer to peer hosting so no big $ server costs to pay. I suspect the base will just keep dwindling down tho.
Fatshark, IMO and with all respect to them, could have saved the game and probably still could but wont. It would take pushing it (advertising vt1 in 2, bundling both games together in a sale, bundling 1 with similar games and splitting profits, etc) but think they have decided its done and their focus is on vt2. I don’t blame them, its a legit option, they’ve made a good product and never did me wrong while providing many fun hours of enjoyment. Still it is sad because vt1 is the best game of its kind I’ve ever played or heard of (including mount and blade).

Why not join the Fatshark Discord https://discord.gg/K6gyMpu