if wardancer can reach breakpoints that the charge combo can kill SV faster, it could be maybe be usable. it still has issues though, the awkward guard/push delay and it, along with glaive, not being able to cancel their swings at ALL. i don’t know why this is a thing when basically every other 2H in the game can do it and she’s extremely squishy. nerfing the glaive is pretty much not an option unless something else is given.
Yeah, the other weapons certainly need some love.
you are discounting one of the most important features of the hagbane: the stagger. a swiftbow doesn’t stagger and requires 6-8 body heavy shots to kill a gatling. that’s a LOT of time needed, and if you have ever been caught in a gatling’s glare without much cover, you’ll know that your aim gets messed up if a single bullet hits you. with a hagbane, you can stagger it with a vague shot, even if it hits the ground it will stagger it. then proceed to fire 3 heavy arrows into it and then go do something else.
the bow is very undervalued atm. one of the main reason for wipes on legend is random bosses appearing, and if you have ever tried a str pot + hagbane on a chaos spawn for example, i guarantee you will gain immediate and irrevocable respect for the hagbane. it just wrecks them so fast with light attack spam.
it’s my main bow of choice on legend now mainly because of that, and it can stunlock an entire stormvermin patrol, or a messy horde that’s wiping your party. it can also CC a bunch of marauders or a spread out pack of ratties that are chasing your mage so she can recover and retaliate, or cc things so your team has space to recover.
honestly, it’s amazing. i love the bow.
also, you mentioned ammo count, well vauls quiver and trueflight ammo return will help you out with that, and of course you can’t spam it like the swiftbow or longbow.
Love hearing how you use hagbane and I’m going to have to give it another go myself. I tried it a few times but didn’t really know what I was doing.
i used to run swiftbow so much because it wrecks normal mobs and maruaders to hell, but i realise that bosses and patrols are the main reasons for wipes on legend, and i needed a solution. all bosses are susceptible to hagbane light attack stacking spam, except the stormfiend where you gotta heavy attack in case it turns and you hit an armor plate, doing no damage.
currently i’m running glaive and hagbane on legend, really really fun with the ammo regen talents since i learnt that vaul’s quiver was fixed in the other thread xD
I was going to argue this some more but decided to try it out thoroughly and found that it does start to eek out a niche where it is decent at horde control and also good at killing bosses assuming you want to entirely offload special killing to the rest of the team.
Yes it can stagger enemies but non-armored specials can be killed much faster with both longbow and swiftbow and in these cases a stagger is not better than the enemy being dead. For armored specials the hagbane is actually terrible and you need to keep in mind the explosion dot dmg will not be applied on a charged shot.
As far as bosses it does appear to do good DPS but you’re still forced to charged shot some of your ammo or you risk running out of light attacks before the boss is dead.
In any case I think the bow given 5-10 more ammo would be in a much better spot.
the hagbane is great for clearing massive packs of infantry. if you can land a hit over their heads or when they are running left to right to maximise the poison explosion radius, you will find that NO OTHER weapon matches that kind of long range horde clearing capability. it’s basically a grenade launcher.
actually it’s great for armoured specials - direct heavy shots will inject the poison and the time taken to shoot the required arrows to kill them is minimal as compared to longbow drawing. it makes a big difference when you are engaged in melee horde but need to kill that gatling that’s firing at you. heavy shot to clear the melee in front of you, heavy shots to finish off gatling. it has versatility and CC that the longbow does not offer for some scenarios.
your second point about running out of ammo - the point about hagbane is it’s extreme burst dmg capability. if i can unload 25 light attacks into a hagbane in as short a time possible, the damage is insane. i don’t want to ‘spread it out’ over the course of the fight, i want to do as MUCH damage as possible in a short amount of time, and the hagbane with any potion will allow you to do this, since the dot damage of each arrow stacks with more arrows.
that being said, i hate trolls because of the damage cut off in the recovery period after getting knocked down and temp healthed reduced to 0. any dots from the hagbane during that timeframe is just bloody wasted and i gotta wait for it to become damagable again.
chaos spawn and ratogre (and stormfiend from the back) and the best things to spam light attacks on, it’s just a mad rush to pump as many arrows into him as possible to watch that HP bar deplete really fast =)
also, it’s a great special killer. for assassins you can stagger them with the explosions, since they move so fast and it’s really hard to hit them with precise weapons. on legend it takes 2 direct hits to kill an assassin. hookrats need 2 arrows. for leeches/blighters they need 3 (i think) direct arrow hits to kill (if a leech teleports in just quickfire 3 arrows into him, he’ll die after he teleports away), same as gas/fire/gatling. and heavy attacks stagger them always, which is really important for interrupting their attacks, something a swiftbow can’t reliably do against armored specials.
it’s a powerful bow that sacrifices spam capability to do specialised damage. when you learn how many arrows a target needs, it becomes a fire and forget bow, which means you’re operating at longbow damage cutoffs, but FASTER.
The best build by far, imo, for hagbane is 20% skaven 10% armor 5% crit + scrounger and with that you 2 shot gunners / flamers and SVs (the same bug from v1 is still in the game that sometimes you get 4 ticks instead of 5 so when that happens you wont 2shot SVs but still 2 shot gunners and flamers with this amount).
-So for armored specials hagbane is, i think, better than longbow because its way faster and requires as many shots as a longbow without a headshot.
-For leeches / stormers longbow is better cos it oneshots them with a headshot where hagbane needs a charged + 2 lights to kill without any chaos power (10% power or barrage will make it so you can kill with 3 lights).
-For bosses hagbane takes the cake, being able to burst em down with either str or conc pot, longbow can get close to hagbane dmg with good headshotting and str pot but basicly hagbane destroys ogres, stormfiends, chaos spawns and boss map bosses (super armored ones require a str pot) and longbow is comparable, or better, against a troll. Also unloading on a boss is not a problem in the least with resourceful combatant glaive. The passive regen + 5 ammo per ult + scrounger is plenty of ammo regen to get to comfortable numbers tens of seconds after a boss.
-Longbow is more spammable, while hagbane is more versatile. Hagbane, when good on ammo, will destroy hordes while longbow is always able to thin it down moderately. Longbow is also better against SVs because they are easy to HS and hagbane poison is bugged and doesn’t always tick the right amount. Against SV patrols, though, hagbane usually will have a higher impact because of the amount of cc it provides.
-The fact that glaive is by far the best melee weapon makes hagbane more useful because of the long dodge it has compared to longbow. With longbow / glaive, situations where ur left alone to clutch are way worse than with hagbane / glaive because of the kiting power alone. Also the dodge makes you able to dps bosses better even when tanking them. Ogre, stromfiend and troll you can do the same with longbow, more or less, but it will struggle against the hardest boss, chaos spawn, while hagbane can keep doing almost full dps because of long dodge and quick switch.
I think the only problem with hagbane is that its only good on waystalker because it requires so much ammo regen. Maybe shade with resourceful combatant glaive and spamming ult at the back of hordes to farm ammo on cd but that’s a bit of a strech, requires more testing. I don’t think it needs any buffs. If they do buff it, its gonna get out of hand really fast, I think its in a good place atm.
nice points, especially the longbow better on a troll part. i agree that hagbane is in a very good spot now with manageable tradeoffs (low ammo but high burst)
i didn’t know about the str pot trick with armored bosses or chaos warriors. now i really want to try it out =) wonder if a str pot + hagbane can smash a chaos patrol.
I haven’t played hagbane enough to say exactly how good it is against super armor either, only tested into the nest once and I could do around 40% of the bosses health during my pot and thats an estimation cos my group was nuking it aswell. Would be easier to test against war camp boss, for example, or CW patroll, like you said.
Minimal compared to a single longbow headshot?
If you are comparing body shots to body shots sure. It’s unreasonable in my opinion to compare these weapons ignoring the insane amount of headshot damage you can get with longbow + WW vs armor.
With the nerf to the longbow in 1.06 and all this talk here, gonna have to take a look at the hag agian.
Well WW dont feel the nerf. Ammo regens as always. But Hagbane is pretty sweet.
Speaking of 1.06 patch… does anyone know if the buff to 2h swords includes the elf’s draich as well?
Great question… Gonna have to do some runs with mine tonight and see!
Can’t confirm, but you may be pleased to know that I ran with a shade earlier that wrecked plenty of stuff with the 2h sword on both Champ and Legend.
sure, if you can get one in the heat of battle consistently, my aim isn’t that good when things are skittering around
I play HM exclusively, the nerf hurts. That said, found the hag a decent bow now that I have plenty of HP behind it, that and 20% armored/10% monster damage, thing seems to do wonders. Still the base ammo count is saddening without op ammo regen.
I don’t know if they buffed it, but last night I had a crap ton of fun ripping hordes apart with it on champ, it certainly felt viable.