Elf weapon feedback for legend

[Frostysir]

Hello!

So i have been testing kerillians weapons, mainly on legend, and i intend to share my feedback having played on both shade and waystalker.

1 handed sword.

I actually like how it feels and works but it deals so darn little damage and hits too few it makes me cry when dealing with several enemies, heck its heavy attack doesnt even deal much damage if it hits a head, there is no merit to use this over the spear at all.

Dual swords.

They do their work well, horde clearing, but they are kinda remarkably useless against armor and shields which is hampering their viability, really damn hard.

Can be made to work on the shade with resourceful combatant thanks to her ability to delete specials and go about her business.

Sword and dagger.

These are my prefered weapons for shade, the mix between single and AOE and the attackspeed makes for a excellent choice even if the swing range feels a bit short at times.

Dual daggers

These just hit too few targets, deal too little damage and dont even apply their bleed on heavy attacks…even shade which seems like the classic assassin gets more use out of dual sword or sword&dagger just because their AOE cleave affects multiple targets when going out of stealth.

And their anti horde/group are worlds ahead of the daggers, which makes said daggers feel truly terrible to use.

Wardancer blade

It has gotten better but the awkward swings, the kinda weak stagger against rotbloods, weak cleaving, extremely specific heavy attacks that can only really be used when fighting a small number of enemies and the somewhat low range makes the weapon a bit underwhelming.

It also has a huge delay when blocking, see the posts about that for more info, which makes it really risky to even use it which in turn makes it a bad and really unsatisfying choice.

Spear

Despite many complaints i think the weapon is fairly good…but it has a few awkward points too.

If there are too many enemies infront it sometimes doesnt actually hit any of them on the light attacks or the push-swipe attacks…

Its anti armor is…well good enough i think? But its anti shield is truly too poor, you can seriously get hardstuck trying to deal with 4 rotblood mobs carrying shields and become unable to do anything unless you happen to use hagbane bow or have F ready.

Glaive

The quite debated glaive…i think its really good at its job being anti armor and even anti shield, but post all the nerfs the cleaving has gotten a bit weak.

Just in a recent game i had a few skinny rotbloods infront of me 3-4 of em, and somehow my first swing only managed to hit 2 of them despite them all being in position to be hit, i know these guys are supposed to be tougher than the skaven but this really makes things difficult.

Its anti shield and anti armor are both great as i mentioned but its crippled dodge distance and speed makes it extremely nerve wrecking against bosses, for just like the wardancer blade there is a significant delay when trying to start a block when attacking, but unlike the wardancer the glaive also has the poor dodge distance which really, really hurts.

As for the ranged weapons.

Longbow

The seemingly iconic weapon for Kerillian, it performs quite alright but it also have a few points that truly leaves things to be desired.

First up, the charged shots cant kill beefy rotbloods on bodyshots, the headshots are kinda lackluster against bosses and its penetration and ammo nerfs has made it much weaker against hordes, particularly rotblood ones are hell to deal with.

Its slow speed and zoom makes the weapon really risky to use at times too.

Shortbow

It does its jobs of anti horde and just free shooting well enough, but the supposed perk of headshot damage doesnt apply on stormvermin and it really, really sucks.

Neither it nor the shortbow mentions anything about armor penetration and yet the longbow deals 3375 damage on a armored dummy headshot while shortbow and shortbow deals 550.

And longbow doesnt even mention bonus headshot damage which shortbow supposedly does have.

Hagbane bow

So…this is actually my favorite for a few reasons.

First up, despite the low ammo every shot delivers just about everything aside from good sniping, it has AOE, DOT, great stagger, AOE stagger, works on armor, doesnt deal too much if you hit a friend which with the rest lets you bail them outa cramped melee and it is absolutely glorious against bosses.

I only wish i knew why it sometimes seems to deal different amounts of damage, at times it kills a leech in 2 shots and at other you need 3, no crits.

Crossbow

I think this weapons feels good but i wish it was a bit better against armor…its a darn crossbow, aside from being intending to be easy to use they were meant to be anti armor too

So an issue with many of the elf weapons overall is a great lack of satisfaction in using them, many of them seem to lack a purpose for existing at all and most also lack a feeling of satisfaction in using them, like the longbow or the wardancer or glaive, all which feel awkward to try and drag around.

“edit”

And i forgot, but some patch back there was a post about adding armor pen to dual swords and sword&dagger but i dont quite understand it, i certainly havent felt any effect…i still seem to need the same amount of heavy attacks to kill a stormvermin.

Was it just a bugfix?

[ehennings10]

I recently ran a wardancer/longbow build, and ended up clutching the win for the team 2x in one run.

I really like the wardancer, but the block problem is worrying, not to mention how the push stab is slow to recover from.

I agree that it could definitely use a buff, making it work is possible, but tedious.

[Avar]

Sword & Dagger OG

[Nilter]

Well, I wanna add some of my thoughts about elven weapons. All her weapons exept 1h Sword and Glaive have very low armour pen on heavy attacks (DnD, SnD, SnS have 25% and Spear, Wardancer have 30%), also her dual weapons have poor push-stab, coz it’s literally stab with 0 cleave and little no no armour pen. Yep, in V1 we had nearly the same situation, but you should face a lot more armoured targets in V2 then it was in V1. In the 1st game it was like “Oh, crap, we have 3 SV!” and now I often see horde + few SV + few Shieldvermins + random CW. And you have to deal with it somehow. Yep, dual weapons feels prety OK when playing Shade, but they are nearly useless for 2 other Elf careers.

I have the same feeling for hagbane, even when we’ll have “on crit traits” fixed it have too low ammo to be usefull for any career exept WS, FYI in V1 it had 35 ammo w/o +ammo trait on a bow, and only 17 ammo in V2.

[Hyrrok]

@Nilter

All her weapons exept 1h Sword and Glaive have very low armour pen on heavy attacks (DnD, SnD, SnS have 25% and Spear, Wardancer have 30%)

DnD has some decent heavy attack pen ?

I moved over to DnD when i play WS, instead of glaive since glaive is too boring / easy

@Frostysir

its heavy attack doesnt even deal much damage if it hits a head, there is no merit to use this over the spear at all.

Better dodge range, and better armor pen on heavy attack.

But it’s all semantics, atleast we dont have a weapon as stumped as kruber sword/shield.

Edited for easier readability.

[Sasa]

@Frostysir

1 handed sword.

I actually like how it feels and works but it deals so darn little damage and hits too few it makes me cry when dealing with several enemies, heck its heavy attack doesnt even deal much damage if it hits a head, there is no merit to use this over the spear at all.

It has one of the best cleaves out there (penetrating more targets than anything that’s not a 2h sword or charged attack), or do you mean it’s attack angle?
The two overhead heavies do the same damage as the 2h hammer and charged on the 1h hammer, they are armor killers.

Wardancer blade
It has gotten better but the awkward swings, the kinda weak stagger against rotbloods, weak cleaving, extremely specific heavy attacks that can only really be used when fighting a small number of enemies and the somewhat low range makes the weapon a bit underwhelming.

Straight up the best weapon when it comes to cleave, pretty much no weapon that is better.

Glaive
The quite debated glaive…i think its really good at its job being anti armor and even anti shield, but post all the nerfs the cleaving has gotten a bit weak.
Just in a recent game i had a few skinny rotbloods infront of me 3-4 of em, and somehow my first swing only managed to hit 2 of them despite them all being in position to be hit, i know these guys are supposed to be tougher than the skaven but this really makes things difficult.
Its anti shield and anti armor are both great as i mentioned but its crippled dodge distance and speed makes it extremely nerve wrecking against bosses, for just like the wardancer blade there is a significant delay when trying to start a block when attacking, but unlike the wardancer the glaive also has the poor dodge distance which really, really hurts.

It has pretty normal cleave, same as halberd, which is more than adequate for such a strong AP weapon. I’d say the glaive is the best weapon available to kerillian, solid cleave, really strong push-stab, good mobility and some of the best AP attacks there are.
As for the ranged weapons.

Longbow
The seemingly iconic weapon for Kerillian, it performs quite alright but it also have a few points that truly leaves things to be desired.
First up, the charged shots cant kill beefy rotbloods on bodyshots,

Neither can the crossbow.

the headshots are kinda lackluster against bosses

I’m not sure what you mean, the longbow is one of the best weapons against bosses. While the handgun and crossbow both lose damage on headshots, the longbow gains body and headshot damage vs them. It’s pretty much the single best boss sniper.

Shortbow
It does its jobs of anti horde and just free shooting well enough, but the supposed perk of headshot damage doesnt apply on stormvermin and it really, really sucks.

I think the headshot damage is more of a wrong description, it doesn’t gain that much from headshotting, nothing to do with stormvermin. But the shortbows lackluster armor pen is it’s one drawback for being so good at taking out unarmored.

Neither it nor the shortbow mentions anything about armor penetration and yet the longbow deals 3375 damage on a armored dummy headshot while shortbow and shortbow deals 550.
And longbow doesnt even mention bonus headshot damage which shortbow supposedly does have.

Penetrating armor is pretty much the longbows role though.

Crossbow
I think this weapons feels good but i wish it was a bit better against armor…its a darn crossbow, aside from being intending to be easy to use they were meant to be anti armor too

Aside from the fact that a small hand-drawn crossbow would have awful armor pen, the crossbow ingame is amazing at anti-armor, losing barely any damage. The only weapon that’s better is the handgun, for obvious reasons.

[Frostysir]

DnD?

Dual daggers?

But you quoted my statement regarding 1 handed sword? O_O

But you were right, the heavy from the one hand sword does deal more damage on a headshot than the spear does even on its second heavy…if only 600.

Well its a merit at least, but i still do think the demerits are a bit too severe to truly make it a viable option.

And i havent actually even played on krubers sword/shield…i only used his 2 handed stuff as i liked them a lot x)

[Frostysir]

@Sasa

It has one of the best cleaves out there (penetrating more targets than anything that’s not a 2h sword or charged attack), or do you mean it’s attack angle?

The two overhead heavies do the same damage as the 2h hammer and charged on the 1h hammer, they are armor killers.

But…i still cant manage to hit more than like 3-4 rats or 2 skinny rotblods? No matter how it performs relative to the rest its still bad if this is the limit

Wardancer is much the same, it has the weird swings where targets standing on your sides sometimes dont get hit at all, and it only hits up to like 2 rotblood mobs or 1 armored target before stopping completely.

That and the block bug makes this weapon darn painful in clutch moments.

@Sasa

Glaive has pretty normal cleave, same as halberd, which is more than adequate for such a strong AP weapon. I’d say the glaive is the best weapon available to kerillian, solid cleave, really strong push-stab, good mobility and some of the best AP attacks there are.

As for the ranged weapons.

Glaive has anything but mobility though? O_O

I can barely manage to dodge things while using it at times, and the cleave is definitely also a bit weaker than i´d like but the armor pen is enough of a merit to make it a really good weapon still.

@Sasa

I’m not sure what you mean, the longbow is one of the best weapons against bosses. While the handgun and crossbow both lose damage on headshots, the longbow gains body and headshot damage vs them. It’s pretty much the single best boss sniper.

The damage isnt all that bad, but have you considered the conditions for it?

Its extremely difficult to ever headshot any boss aside from the stormfiend since they tend to move around a lot, the only other boss that is somewhat hittable is the troll but you dont exactly have the luxury of time when he is about to puke on you.

So given the difficulty of doing it the reward is not good at all.

@Sasa

Penetrating armor is pretty much the longbows role though.

You are right, but it´d be nice if it actually followed up on this.

It doesnt work on chaos warriors at all, any ranged weapon works on stormvermin it seems and its so darn slow to boot.

I mean, last time i counted i think it was over 10 headshots to kill a chaos warrior on the longbow, and i forgot if i got any crits or used the headshot bonus damage.

Its supposed to do armor penetration…but you end up trying to avoid the armor entirely or use another weapon like the glaive to deal with it.

@Sasa

Aside from the fact that a small hand-drawn crossbow would have awful armor pen, the crossbow ingame is amazing at anti-armor, losing barely any damage. The only weapon that’s better is the handgun, for obvious reasons.

It does actually work well on stormvermin, like the longbow.

But it also sucks on the chaos warriors which bugs me to no end.

If i shoot him in the side while he does a overhead swing i want some damage to go in

[hibernape]

TL;DR Wardancer Blade is pretty good now, especially for Shade. Requires a bit of technique when using light attacks. Still not the best armor killer in the game, and the block delay is still an issue, but it’s no longer an unusable atrocity like it was before.

The Wardancer Blade requirees a bit of finesse to actually use properly. You have to turn at an angle with every swing (which is just left and right). For example, with the first swing coming from the right side, you need to aim a bit more to the left so you can hit everything in front of you, and vice versa.

They buffed the charged attack around 1.0.6 and the damage is comparable to a charged DD . Still not the best weapon against Shield Vermins, multiple CW, and armored bosses but you can make it work with enough crit chance and crit power to compensate. The damage I can do as a Shade with Wardancer blade against unarmored bosses (Rasknitt, Deathrattler, Rat Ogres, Bile Trolls, Chaos Spawns, Stormfiend) is absolutely ridiculous. And because they also buffed the charged attack’s range, you can chase bosses around and continue messing them up with a Con. pot.

Also, gotta note that Wardancer blade’s charged attacks have to parts that works similar to the Glaive. The second charged attack is a sweep, so it’s a nice follow up attack.
That being said, the block delay issue still sucks. You have to rely on dodging a lot of you’re eager to use it.

[Sasa]

@Frostysir

But…i still cant manage to hit more than like 3-4 rats or 2 skinny rotblods? No matter how it performs relative to the rest its still bad if this is the limit

That’s not what i am getting using it. I think your game may be bugged, i can penetrate 2 marauders with it (bulky ones), which is more than 4 fanatics (the skinny ones). Going by stat tables, you can hit 6 marauders with it, but that’s a bit hard to measure.

Wardancer is much the same, it has the weird swings where targets standing on your sides sometimes dont get hit at all, and it only hits up to like 2 rotblood mobs or 1 armored target before stopping completely.

Think that sounds more like something that happens due to the angle at which you attack.
All attacks are stopped by armored targets. Although you really may be having a bug, there is no way the 2h sword only hits 2 fanatics.

Glaive has anything but mobility though? O_O
I can barely manage to dodge things while using it at times, and the cleave is definitely also a bit weaker than i´d like but the armor pen is enough of a merit to make it a really good weapon still.

Compared to the 2h on other chars it has a fairly solid one.
I think your complaints about cleave may be a little bit due to having too high standards.

The damage isnt all that bad, but have you considered the conditions for it?
Its extremely difficult to ever headshot any boss aside from the stormfiend since they tend to move around a lot, the only other boss that is somewhat hittable is the troll but you dont exactly have the luxury of time when he is about to puke on you.
So given the difficulty of doing it the reward is not good at all.

It deals 2.25 times it’s already fairly high bodyshot damage is a decent reward. Really, it’s amazing vs bosses while the other two snipers are rubbish at it.

It doesnt work on chaos warriors at all, any ranged weapon works on stormvermin it seems and its so darn slow to boot.

No ranged weapon besides the handgun does anything to them really. They are insanely resistant to ranged, outside of crits.
You were complaining that the swift bow is bad vs stormvermin, which is exactly where the longbows pen comes into play.

Its supposed to do armor penetration…but you end up trying to avoid the armor entirely or use another weapon like the glaive to deal with it.

It pairs fairly well with non AP melee, using it do deal with armored opps your melee weapon struggles with, so not sure what you mean.

But it also sucks on the chaos warriors which bugs me to no end.

Same here, the only ranged weapon that is any good vs them is the handgun (for obvious reasons) and even that only got there with the recent patch and was rubbish before that.

[Hyrrok]

@Sasa

No ranged weapon besides the handgun does anything to them really. They are insanely resistant to ranged, outside of crits.

You were complaining that the swift bow is bad vs stormvermin, which is exactly where the longbows pen comes into play.

Semantics, but kruber bow, xbow, staffs and some other gunpowder weapons can do some work ! also longbows armor pen is quite weak, it is only really worth headshotting SV’s unless you have an overflow of arrows.

[Kitten]

Melee:
Glaive and Spear feel great atm, both have insane horde clear, with Glaive leading for Elite killing power.

Dual Swords, SnD and DD all feel great for Shade, but not amazing for the other careers. They are much more viable now though.

2h Sword on feels good on Shade, using ult for huge cleaves and horde clear. However, I can’t really think of a build on other classes where 2h Sword would be better than other weapons.

I had an ok working build with the 1H Sword, but it’s really lackluster.

Suggestions for melee

• Make Dual Wield weapons have a combo for higher charged attack damage. e.g. two light attacks then a power attack for higher damage. Could also be done with the 1h Sword and would look cool too.
• In V1 you had a trinket for poison chance on hit. That would be awesome as a talent for WS or Shade and would make dual wield or fast hitting weapons better and more interesting too.

Range:

Longbow is great if you go for headshots. It feels really balanced right now. WS you can have unlimited ammo still and Shade/Handmaiden just focus on specials and some elites.

Hagbane some of the traits aren’t working and it’s not clear how they do work with the damage being AoE. On WS it can be used as a ranged horde clear, but on Shade and Handmaiden it can mainly be used for heavy boss damage and horde clear if needed. It’s ok vs specials, but really bad vs armour. You really need someone to be running ranged special kill for this to work.

Xbow is just crazy good at horde clear, boss killing and elite killing. If you’re low on bolts, just fire into a horde and watch your ammo fill up. The animation freezing so you constantly shoot burst fire when you’re trying to shoot single bolts is annoying though.

Swift bow seems ok, but the other bows are much better for everything it can do. It’s probably the most boring bow. Would love a ‘special attack’ like Salt’s Rapier, where you shoot a fire arrow (maybe for higher boss damage?).

Suggestions for ranged

• Xbow vs hordes is ridiculously strong. Consider reducing burst fire damage unless all 3 bolts hit the target?
• Reduce Hagbane initial arrow damage and have it more about the DoT damage. This will make Hag feel even more unique while complimenting what it’s already good at.
• Talents that change anything to Hagbane could be fun too. My favourite boss kill setup currently has Daggers and Hagbane, both with DoT damage. If there was a talent to change anything with DoTs that would be cool. Even if my DoTs benefit my allies some how.

[Sasa]

@Hyrrok

Semantics, but kruber bow, xbow, staffs and some other gunpowder weapons can do some work ! also longbows armor pen is quite weak, it is only really worth headshotting SV’s unless you have an overflow of arrows.

To my knowledge, the kruber longbow needs 7 consecutive headshots to down a chaos warrior and the crossbow even more. It’s really not worth it.
Staffs i don’t know, i heard the bolt can do some damage with a fully charged headshot, but the rest is less effective, but generally i would leave out sienna from ranged discussions since she is somewhat hard to compare.
I am not aware of any gunpowder based weapon [edit: other than the previously mentioned handgun] that is of any use vs chaos warriors.

With some +power you can 2 shot them in the body, making the longbow equivalent to the crossbow in it’s performance against them. Not sure what you think should be different.

[Avar]

Krubers seemed to be wrecking CW with handgun in my runs the other day but I wasn’t paying too much attention. I know it wasn’t with ult exploit at least.

[Sasa]

@Sasa

Same here, the only ranged weapon that is any good vs them is the handgun (for obvious reasons) and even that only got there with the recent patch and was rubbish before that.

As in anything gunpowder based weapon besides the handgun.

[NikKotovski]

The topic reminds me of this one, in a sense, that OP seems to not understand the topic he’s talking about at all. Not only that, but he keeps creating the same topics again and again and again, god only knows why.

I don’t know about you, guys, but I don’t wanna participate in this Groundhog Day. If it was some kind of discussion, then at least it could be worth taking part in.

But in this topiс the author basically says “this is how I feel, deal with it”. Maybe you didn’t notice, but there is even no question here. So what’s the argue? Because one more person is wrong on the internet? idk, doesn’t feel as a good enough reason for me.

[Flinlock]

I thought this post sounded familiar… Haha

[Hyrrok]

With that mindset would you do us a favor and make a megathread with the general consensus, to compress ?

[NikKotovski]

Impossible. The best I can do is make a voting for each individual weapon and make the majority decide what’s good and what’s bad.

I tried doing this, but it was very hard, since people mainly ignored original topic question, so I had to constantly monitor the topic, asking people directly. Also the lack of built-in voting system didn’t help at all.

I have already done similar thing btw, compiling the most needed changes. But it took me dozens of hours, more than 100 actually; and after finishing it I made a conclusion for myself, that such a thing is not worth doing at all if you’re not getting paid.

So I do ask people from time to time about the stuff that really interests me, but I am do not have any intentions of making yet another giant compilation.

[Hyrrok]

+1 i would never even start one as i mainly only write when i commute or is on the john : >

Forums are good for a general opinion from my experience.

I really do hope whoever monitors these forums take most things with a grain of salt. Since i’m sure there’s certain persons opinion they will take a bit more serious than some guy saying storm vermins are stupid because his light attacks cant 1 shot them etc. I havent watched too much from a guy like J.sat but he seems incredibly knowledgable about the games mechanics as a whole, i wouldn’t be surprised if got asked something along the lines of ‘’ What is your opinion on x y z’’.