Elf: sword+dagger compaired to dual swords


before the patch i am pretty sure that sword+dagger did the same dmg than dual swords.
now sword+dagger does less dmg. is that intended or do i remember it completely wrong?
i am sure i tested it 1-2 weeks ago and it was completly the same dmg on the first 2 swings.

according to 1.0.6 stat thingy, damage was lower even then.

Always lower.

SnD always did less damage because a number of the attacks come from the dagger, but the dagger has a bleed effect and the combo swings a bit faster…unfortunately it also hits fewer targets.

But its also better against armor.

Pro´s and cons.

It’s false. SnD hits weaker in general and does not apply bleed, except for push attack maybe.

Ah you are right on the SnD sword actually hitting weaker, but i can honestly promise, the dagger actually applies a bleed.

Even though it doesnt actually mention that in the description.

How else do you explain stuff like leeches dying after teleporting away when you have only hit them in melee? I´ve done it several times.

…Might be a bug x)

Sword and Dagger only apply the bleed on the 3rd light attack. (Source: Weapon.json File by UnShame)



Yea. It seems silly that neither charged attack will apply bleed, despite the dagger being used in dealing damage.

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The dual daggers don’t apply the bleed either on their heavies. The funniest thing to me is that Siennas Dagger applies bleed on the push stab.

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So many inconsistencies. I wish this game had more consistency with things. Feels like you need a big Research & Development firm just to figure out all the nuances in this game. It’s insane that so much of the information we know now is from modders and data-miners. The game gives us so little information and there is no wiki(other than the player made one(s)) for players to get information on. A number of the things could not be working, but you may not know of it. Then there are other problems that the devs don’t seem to even acknowledge. The game is in a state right now that’s really frustrating to play half the time. But I digress from the thread’s topic.

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The real problem here is there is no way to tell what anything does with the target dummies. You can’t test talents on them, the numbers change randomly, and status effects have no visual indicators even on living enemies.

Those and the numbers arent even vaguely correct, if comparing bows for instance.

Longbow headshot would at a time deal 9 k damage on a dummy headshot.

Shortbow would deal 4,5- 5 k damage.

Longbow headshot kills a stormvermin on a headshot.

Shortbow needs 3 headshots.


Are you sure you shot at the armored dummy? Because the big drawback of the shortbow is it’s lackluster armor pen.
As a reference, on legend, stormvermin have 3900 health.

Also, make sure you’re not testing on a recruit or veteran keep. Recruit and vet imposes power caps, and the keep defaults to recruit every time you log in. You have to enter and leave a map on the difficulty you want to test for the keep to change difficulty.

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This information is completely irrelevant, since the numbers will stay the same in relation to each other.

While that’s true, it’s possible his number discrepancy came from testing between runs on different difficulties, causing damage fluctuations he didn’t understand. A lot of people don’t know the keep always defaults to recruit when you first log in, then goes to whatever difficulty you played last. It’s useful info to tell people who don’t seem to understand why the test dummy numbers don’t add up.

Ass a side note to @Frostysir you were definitely testing on the unarmored dummy if you’re getting 4-5k dmg on shortbow headshots. Against the armored dummy, you won’t break 1k on the shortbow unless you invest heavily into damage vs armor and skaven.

Thanks for the info but i do know about the entire “bastion difficulty” thing.

But i do think its strange now that i have tested on the armored dummies, neither long or shortbow have anything about armor pen in their description and yet longbow obviously deals a lot more to armored targets.

And shortbow even has a mention for headshot damage.

I figured since neither mentions armor pen then they should have the same % reduction but clearly that is not the case.

…its impossible for stormvermin to have 3900 health you know?

Even bosses have less than that.

The endgame score even for a high damage is rarely more than 10-11 k damage, boss damage sits around 1-2 k if its high.

So stormvermin cant really have more than 100-200 health.

He meant 39 health. :expressionless:

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