Near global stamina regen or damage reduction from HM & FK would be big dumb. Sister should have her range, and effect, reduced.
I can’t recall RotR’s exact radius atm, but HM aura would probably need to cop a nerf at that size. It’s absurdly powerful.
Just curious if you don’t think FK’s base aura and similar aren’t also just a bit too small? Maybe my rock of the reikland suggestion is too far, but surely these auras could at least have about 50% radius added to them to be a little more practical?
Edit:
RotR is double the normal radius from memory. You’re right that would probably be too much for HM’s aura with how powerful it is. Would be best if the radius was tuned individually for each aura. FK would be fine with 50%-100% more range and HM probably shouldn’t get much more than 20% extra range, if any.
FK & Huntsman aura are certainly too small for the benefit they give. This is most easily seen on FK, simply take Protective Presence and watch how rare it is to have multiple stacks. Huntsman’s aura might as well be a self only buff since it only works within spooning range.
Double what though? I spent a few minutes looking around and I can’t find any numbers on the aura ranges.
I’m afraid I don’t know the numbers either. Just tested the range using the buff icons in keep with mates.
No point in fighting. Moonfire and Javelin are definitely too strong for being infinite ammo weapons with the latter taking a big smelly dump all over Throwing Axes which are pointless for Ranger (Masterwork Pistol) and less useful for Slayer as you are locked into the 5% Crit Chance Talent.
Sister of the Thorns is still too powerful especially when Fatshark claims that it’s a “support” class. The massive stat buff talent that is pretty much a second ult, crits after ult use (broken when with Engineer last time I checked), and her pure damage ult talent completely run against the whole “support” class idea.
Her talents mesh well together as a whole but some are just selectively far too good and I dislike how her ult is changed from controlling the battlefield to just pure damage - imo it should also be more friendly for ranged / bomb / melee for players.
Looks at WHC, BW, MWP ranger whistling innocently in a corner
Yeeees, totally isnt anything else that isnt problematic at all whatsoever : P
It doesnt hit all that hard compared to her other bows and waystalker had unlimited ammo anyway, i really do not understand the appeal outside of SoT who can crit on demand x)
…oh shade.
It needs like 20% armor to kill a stormvermin on a headshot so hold up on the hyperbole here, SoT is the one who gets around it with on demand crits or alternatively waystalker with bloodshot (requires melee).
It´s faaaar from a particularly good option at all on waystalker actually, i think swiftbow might be competing…but the stagger on CW bodyshots is indeed too much. However the cleave is not actually particularly amazing on cata at all IMO, takes enemies lining up like a dang congo train to show any real power.
Longbow has infinite ammo when used well anyway, especially on waystalker, and it beats javelin in basically everything except piercing cleave and CW stagger, neither which is commonly a big thing.
I do agree moonbow needs a fair lot of work but how is javelin anywhere near so overpowered? It´s a lazy but overall worse longbow. Way worse. The only perk it has is more cleave which only really comes into play against hordes with no shields/armor and also a congo line lineup.
The SoT bleed build does insane amounts of damage on the staff too, tears up monsters hard.
I object!
The cleave is basically the only upside they have over longbow because lets be real, good longbow user has infinite ammo anyway and the cleave thing only really comes into power against congo lines anyway.
Nerfing this away basically means there is never any reason to pick it over longbow even on SoT who already seems to use moonbow more. And i dare be fairly sure that Moonbow remains the best choice for shade and HM as well. And this will always be the case as long as moonbow oneshots specials.
If it doesnt do that it will not be used however and we´ll probably be looking at longbow being optimal for the skilled but javelin common for the lazy.
Waystalker? Waystalker can use longbow to compete with moonbow and she smacks both with hagbane in a dense horde run.
Insert heartfelt applause
Also, do note cloak of mist and power from pain.
No argument on moonfire but javelin isnt actually all that strong by itself, it´s just throwing axes being bad.
What breaks javelin is crit steroids, most notably on SoT and shade, and those steroids are kinda broken even without javelin…
Personally, I think it should be the other way around for Bloodrazor. It is a thorn wall. It should bleed enemies to death but not shredder them. I would remove/reduce the direct damage and add it (partially) to the bleed and also make the bleed slower. So the main benefit would be the stagger to control bosses and elites while still bleeding out the enemies. But they have at least a chance to fight back then.
And for Morai-Hag, it could be discussed to inverse receptor and benefector like everytime SotT uses her career skill the team/the closest team member get one/two guaranteed crits.
There are other minor changes which could be discussed for SotT. But personally, I would focus on these two first. Weapon-wise is another discussion again.
Blackvenom Thicket/Repel build:
https://www.ranaldsgift.com/18/333233/26,8,3,3/29,5,3,1/3,2,1/4,7,4/1,7,1
She has so much CC it’s ridiculous. She’s like a caster tank/support. I DO NOT THINK THE CC BUILD NEEDS NERFING IN ANY WAY.(adding this in in case anyone gets the wrong idea)
If you time your pushes with a 2-3 hit combo, you can always have Repel up, which is an insane amount of CC.
It combos extremely well with the Wall, because you can spam push enemies onto it for Stagger damage advantage and then Shrapnel. In corridors and on Patrols, you can turn the wall at the side of them, so that it Staggers the entire density, and puts Shrapnel on it, after hyper stacking them all with Repel, or baiting standing attacks.
The amount of safety, Stagger advantage, Shrapnel, and potential for saving people in tight situations is crazy. I saved 2 teammates from being overrun while 30-40 ft away by walling at them.
If you play this build on the current event, you’ll see how ridiculous it can be.
It has really high synergy with any Wiz. We even had Unchained do 90k damage using the new staff, as you can wall enemies into the fire and use Repel to push them into it.
One of the best things you can do with the wall is completely block off high density and push out of a low density area. It removes all of the pressure from certain situations.
I played this build yesterday for hours and had a lot of success in the event. Surviving in some pretty dumb situations too.
Suggested changes:
Change the 10 Second Ult Talent to do something else, as the damage boosting from the Shrapnel Ult is what makes it work, but the 10 Second Ult would actually cause you to be overrun. Making it wider, allowing you to attack through it and boosting melee attacks through it could all work (this would make it extremely good vs Patrols.
Maybe even a proximity damage boost to teammates would be a good idea too, similar to the Beastman flag. I would say a heal/damage reduction, but the issue with it is that Bloodvenom works because it enables your teammates to do more damage, while Ironbark ONLY enables positional benefits.
The problem:
This build is only really useful on higher difficulty content, e.g. Cata weekly, or Deeds. Below that, you may as well run the OP DPS build.
It can require coordination and knowledge of the game, e.g. your teammate not Bombing for Shrapnel because you’ve got you wall up at the Boss, and it’s about to expire. Your teammates knowing to bait standing attacks next to the wall to make sure enemies are given the Shrapnel debuff and Staggered.
You should play this build if you’re willing to drop green circles and enable someone else to get green circles.
Oh, and on topic:
Moonbow’s ability to maintain Hunter is insane. My main is HM/SoTT, and for those it’s like playing on easy mode.
You can actually play health on kill for HM, as you have Hunter/5-25% Crit. This build really pops off on higher density.
I think you are thinking about Blackvenom thicket? Ironbark just raises the duration but blackvenom staggers enemies around and casts a 20% damage taken debuff to enemies around the wall when it pops. And staggers again.
Ironbark does no stagger or buffs/debuffs, it just adds 4 seconds to the wall.
I get where you’re coming from but I don’t quite agree. Firstly you even said yourself that hitting max cleave rarely happens so would you really notice a 20-30% cleave nerf in most situations?
Lets take WS out of the equation for a moment because she does indeed have infinite ammo on every weapon with Kurnous, which will naturally devalue infinite ammo weapons. If you’re using javelins/longbow almost exclusively for elite/special sniping I agree longbow clearly wins and has effectively infinite ammo with CS anyway. However getting practical use out of the longbow for hordes (again outside of WS) is a lot less likely with only CS to keep your ammo up. Doable yes, but much harder to sustain than when only sniping elites and specials. To me the value of javelins is doubling as a solid horde clear weapon, and again they really don’t need as much cleave as they currently have to still function well for that purpose. It’s a very versatile ranged weapon for Shade and HM that doesn’t care about head shots for ammo sustain, and that has value.
“But Moonbow!” I hear you say. Yes, moonbow does basically eat Javelins entire potential niche on the Elf melee careers at the moment, but since that’s the one everyone seems to agree with nerfing that may not remain the case, and I don’t really think current moonbow is a fair comparison point for any weapon.
Indeed I was getting a bit confused, but regardless I thought the initial wall cast had a small AoE stagger regardless of the talent. Is that incorrect?
I also stated that it´s only really noticeable if enemies are lined up which i do think it´s the time where you´d notice a sudden large loss of piercing power. At least when dealing with a pure infantry lineup which is the golden time.
I disagree that it is solid for it at all, cata hordes are extremely prone to poping out from just about anywhere and not in a congo line formation at that, especially skaven ones. In such a scenario you´d probably not notice a nerfed cleave but then…with the gap between longbow and javelin being shortened in this regard then longbow will just pull further ahead overall.
Plus, cata hordes often have shields, armor or elites in them to stop the spears from hitting max piercing anyway. A single slaverat with a toilet lid can stop it…at the expense of the lid.
But on the other hand you have to headshot if you wana kill specials and elites quickly, something that is extremely valued on any melee career. A weapon that fails to do that is highly likely to be left unused.
Something we have seen plenty before.
And on this i agree, but on the other hand no matter exactly how moonbow gets nerfed it´s likely it will keep on being able to oneshot specials which is why it will likely always be the best for HM/shade.
If it stops being able to do that then no one will use the weapon.
It does have a tiny stagger but on cata i think there are several elites that can basically shrug it off, and monsters ignore it entirely.
Not quite the whole picture. It enables you to run Piercing Shot for free, which in turn makes Nuclear Fairy Bow an even better pick than it already is.
Javelin seems to “lose” to Longbow until you get used to the rather gentle throwing arc. Its cleave is three times as high as other range weapons and the heavy attack deals Executioners heavy level damage to Monsters with a much faster hitrate. When you toss assassin into the arena, instead of smiter, it gets even better.
The damage and mobility the Jav hands you, makes it rather easy to hold agro and enable yourself to headhit what you are after. That you can go Hunter on Infinite ammo weapons is also something you cant forget about.
Elgi always had the best out of all worlds kind of arsenal. The latest DLCs doubled down on that.
How good is piercing arrow actually though? Killing chaos warriors, congo lines and monsters with easily accessible headshot hitboxes in a vacuum without teammates that stagger your targets? At the expense of giving up assassin?
On the other hand you cant block, wont have swift slaying up on it and you need headshot access which rather gimps how useful it actually is against a monster. If bodyshotting there are other options that are better i am fairly sure.
Also…i am fairly sure that executioner level damage is crit dependent?
Hunter is nice but on the other hand, with proper power investments it only really comes into play against very big targets that are accordingly, less common. Otherwise it just ends as overkill to no real profit.
Not like hagbane&barrage.
She always had top tier weapons true, but if looking at overall power levels then the likes of BW and WHC have rarely been unable to compete since since those careers got their talent updates. And MWP ranger is still a thing too.
This is a real issue. Its movement collision already only affects enemies, the hits hitbox should too.
Many a wall has eaten my GS swings, and I have seen more than one person attempting to fire through it.
You can left click to rotate it 90°. When you spawn its length through a horde, the debuff will apply to all with a tiny bit of horde control ; hence why Repel can be a strong option.
True, but her passive also makes her one of the most sustainable characters THP wise, her talents and weapons make her one of the characters with the most DPS, and her ults + deepwood make her one of the characters with the most debuffing and control support. She’s just called Mary-Sue now.
It does have stagger when you cast it, but not on bosses. It does stagger a Patrol twice, for instance.
<offtopic> So does the blunderbuss. </offtopic>
Fair.
With its default attack speed, I’m not sure SS is necessary.
The game overall has been on a train creeping its way to overpowered station, it is undeniable.
Its not necessary but it´s not particularly outstanding either, the lights are fast but headshot dependent for damage and only amazing with crits.
You get more consistent power out of a normal spear if running melee with an average critical rate.
I´d say that was a pretty obvious thing ever since the BBB when fatsharks balance department hit the road thinking that cloak of mist was a good idea and the whole BW thing that went something like :
“What if battle wizard, but more like fire goddess for the next few months?”
…
Well lots of weird and honestly, bad, balance things have gone down, i do not think that needs much commenting. But at any rate i think Javelins would be fine for cata with a loss of easy CW stagger and maybe a hit to the crit modifiers.
…I´d rather the easy crits on the two offending careers take a hit though.
Comparing Javelin to Longbow
Javelin fires slightly faster than longbow 0.5/0.45(0.3 reloadcancel) vs 0.52/0.44 and has lesser projectile speed which does matter for the arc.
Javelin needs power for headshot breakpoints but can make up for it with Hunter
Longbow has more powerful headshots but often uses properties to reach key bodyshot breakpoints
Javelin’s extreme cleave does come into play when medium size units start appearing; longbow can’t penetrate a marauder but Javelin can go through three of them and keep going. Combined with the ridiculous stagger this lets it floor packs of Maulers/Berzerkers at will.
There is a world of difference between real infinite ammo and Conservative shooter, Even waystalker would run out if she tried to shoot at every pack of enemies.
Summary:Longbow is still very good but you can’t say Javelin is just an inferior option.
One of these uses power investments to hit headshot breakpoints, the other uses them to hit bodyshot breakpoints. I think this is a pretty notable detail.
Right this is absolutely true, in a vacuum of shields and armor the javelin is very powerful, but the berserkers thing isnt terribly impressive as longbow does that too. It staggers running monks on every aimed shot.
True, but it depends on what you use it for too, handmaiden for instance would probably not shoot random enemies so much and thus her longbow doesnt run out. Waystalker does but she can run kurnous and thus she can avoid it.
It is inferior in the sense that it´s niche and that the niche isnt as generally useful as longbow´s is. The fact that it struggles much more with specials while armor and shields wreck the whole anti horde deal hurt it’s effectiveness.
The one time i found myself liking javelin over longbow was when dealing with a packmaster riding a chaos mauler wave or equivalent but that was it.
…
Exception to all this is when you have easy crit access at which point the javelin does better on all fronts except the shields which remains the same.
Regarding moonfire bow the dmg is massive with the Dot but would it balance it out if the charge was reduced so you only could get 1-2 charged shots or 3-4 quick shots before out of it? Perhaps even reduce the rate at which the charge comes back? Or just reduce the dmg. If i recall moonfire doesnt require much in the sense of power or at all to reach important breakpoints.
And bloodrazor, how bout keep it as a wall but one that causes moderate bleed to everything that touches it, the dot being strong enough to threaten basic horde chaff but not melt pats or bosses. Keeping up with the wall motiff of her ult.
Yes now compare it to WS hagbane, oh wow they are mediocree suddenly. Not saying anything about how stupidly strong is now rest of her new dlc stuff
Currently SotT invalidates all other careers in the game by a very large margin. She can do anything with no downsides whatsoever. Not sure how a balance update could be delivered without removing some of her stuff.
I’d outright remove A Murder of Spites & A Sustenance of Leechlings. Some careers don’t get in their entire kit as much as SotT gets delivered just in her perks. I’d nerf Attendance of Munificients to something like 10-15% maybe, as it’s the one perk that actually offers support, but I don’t think it should be cranked to the point where everyone gets to run Boon of Shallya+Barkskin.
The nerf to Radiant Inheritance was irrelevant imo. I’d remove this talent altogether and replace it with something else. Maybe one of the two aforementioned perks. Doomsight should be capped to exactly 3 crits and would still be extremely powerful, I think. No reason for it to stack to astronomical numbers.
The problem with her level 30 Talents is that 2 of the 3 completely cuck/grief your team. Bloodrazor Thicket is the only option that doesn’t hinder everyone else’s gameplay or even worse, get them killed. Probably deserves a nerf, but I’d still use it over the other two no matter what.
Regarding weapons, javs could probably use a cleave nerf and a melee damage nerf. The staff is way too spammy and should be more punishing when reaching the overcharge cap. I don’t know what to say about Moonfire. That bow is all over place. I think FS need to decide what role they want for it and tune it accordingly (anti-specials? anti-elites? anti-hordes? anti-monsters? anti-mayflies?).