Dueling swords need more stamina ... or very high sprint efficiency

I really love the dueling sword for psykers.
I think hey should get the deflector blessing but that is another matter, and MK II and IV probably need some damage boost or higher weak spot bonus.

But the thing that is really lacking is the measly +1 stamina they get.
In some way, I understand the logic of stamina being more of a blocking ability for weapons as it is not used for dodge.

But this once more forces the psyker to always switch to their staff for running, as well as venting etc.
With Brain Burst and our 2 weapons, the class really gets the more switch imposed to the player ALL THE TIME.

Please give us a rest by providing dueling sword with better stamina.
Or, probably a better idea, an innate very high sprint efficiency would work as an alternative without breaking the blocking logic tied to stamina.

(as an addendum, psykers should get a consequent sprinting boost and efficiency when having only their hands out for BB).

They do already have relatively good sprint efficiency (and very high sprint speed), it’s just that the Psyker class itself has the lowest base stamina of 1. One thing worth noting is that Psyker also has the smallest delay before stamina regen kicks back in, so if you spam sprint → slide repeat stam starts regenning during the slide before you are even able to start sprinting again. That’s what I’ve been doing with my beloved MK IV duelling sword. Unfortunately it doesn’t feel like the slide gets any kind of speed bonus so you do lose out on some of the high sprint speed, though it still does definitely feel faster than running with staff out.

I kinda like that it makes stam curios a bit more desirable on Psyker, but then you hit the problem that stam curios are bugged currently and always give 1 stamina no matter what number is displayed on the curio. Otherwise I’d strongly consider running one on my Psyker.


Sprinting needs a redesign in general. It’s in a very weird place that interacts in unideal ways with other defensive maneuvers. Personally I wish it wasn’t a defensive maneuver at all and didn’t cut into those resources.

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They still feel light stamina wise when the staves get a whooping +4 stamina or more don’t remember, there is some balancing to be made here somehow.

Loved the MKIV to begin with but could not get a good one despite being a shop wh…e.
Ended up with a MKV I got used to and I really love the extra damage.

On top of that you can do a heavy (usually enough to head shot any man sized enemy on heresy) followed immediately, if the target is still alive, by an alt attack that is the quick jab you can aim to the head.

Having a reactive quick jab available to release if you see the target is not dead feels awesome to use, adding some quick gameplay thinking to the weapon.
Maybe the MKIV does the same, haven’t had one to use for a while !

Its funny how Fat Shark hates the dodge meta when they created it. Just throwing pushes as veteran is asking to die because of his in built delay, if you were dodging (because shovel has 6 dodges) its gone in an instant.

As for the sword I find it to be a letdown. It could really use a follow up move to its special attack like the combat knife giving you that awesome push attack whenever you punch something. The lights are anemic as hell even with headshots. Dueling any elite for an extended period is pain. It is mobile but psyker has the knife like everyone else, way better weapon for cruising around grabbing mats.

Ultimately I just went back to the force sword since its about as bad at horde clear but has other utilities, mainly deflector and killing elites. Maybe if the dueling swords had deflector it would be easier to justify, after all your other arm is literally behind your back. Maybe it could have a weak psychic attack you could use when blocking. It just feels pretty bad.


I’d at least agree they could do to have an extra point of stamina. I think they have the same stamina as dagger? That’s a little low for what they are.

@MarxistDictator I think they’re alright as an option for quick passive venting with good mobility and decent ability to keep a horde off you in a pinch (feels better than dagger at that to me). I enjoy spamming staff then swapping to a duelling sword to dip into melee while quietude recharges my toughness fairly quickly. They might need some light buffs I dunno, I’m relatively new to Psyker and haven’t taken mine into higher difficulties yet.

That’s where it falls apart, its like as trashy horde clear as force sword but the elite damage is cratered. Its one of the few special attacks that won’t stagger powerfully either so elites are just suffering. Especially bulwarks since hitting their weakpoint in melee is very hard and this weapon is more ‘you do no DPS without weakpoint hits’ instead of a weapon that delivers strong weakpoint strikes like Saltz’ rapier. The framework is there, it is mobile and packs cleave, but it needs to have some advantage to using it. Its like 5 light attack headshots to kill a dreg bruiser on damnation, and like 5 body shots too.

This is a nonissue, and here’s why. Psykers have an insanely low stamina recharge delay. If you slide, your stamina will start to recharge before your slide ends. While playing psyker, if I slide while sprinting over and over, I end up with a NET POSITIVE stamina. I gain stamina as I sprint. Dueling sword also has the largest dodge distance by far in the game. I think the dueling sword is already a clutch machine and doesn’t need a buff.

I come back to this weapon noticing Mk 5 wins out completely in damage over the other two, and actually has enough damage to be worthwhile to use. Its even easier to land headshots with because its 2 overheads, and they have weird hitboxes to where they can headshot plague ogryns from behind and a lot of other useful quirks.

Maybe the two thrusting sabers could have charging damage like Saltz’ rapier so they’re not as pathetic, but they really need a buff to reflect the reward in landing stabs. Because of all the current 3 weapon setups Mk 5 is just the same thing but better to where it actually works.

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Crit damage and headshot bonus on them could be better. Those stats are kind of lackluster with most modifier levels.

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Mk 5 also has a L3 that still hits the same targets(?) but does higher first target damage, basically on par with the Mk 2 and 4’s heavy. But it comboes in from the special. With how you can’t inherit speed from the heavy anymore its great for tying up shooters and quickly dispatching them.

Man its really hard to justify the three weapons if only 1 is even remotely serviceable. I only noticed a group balance this bad with the ogryn knives.

I’ve been using the MK IV mostly on my Psyker though I have not taken my Psyker into Damnation yet and I can definitely see the low damage output being a big problem there.

I struggle to get the hang of the MK V’s light attacks for horde clear and its hitboxes feel awkward for keeping horde at bay. The attack angles on the MK IV feel very comfortable for sweeping at horde head level and cleaving decently well. Also with its attack pattern if I squint hard enough it feels pleasantly reminiscent of the VT2 rapier. I think your idea of 2 charge levels on the thrust heavies would be great. They feel very satisfying to use but the damage is severely lacking and shred doesn’t help that much since the difference between a head shot and a crit head shot is very minor, which feels like an oversight for these weapons in particular.

What is your horde rotation for MK V? As I said I found it rather awkward for groups, but you’re making me think I need to give it another shot.

I will have to play a bit more today to remember.

The MKV is slower than others which makes the most heavy drawback for hordes. I would usually create a bit of space and switch to my void staff right away for a horde, with the quell on weak spot blessing clearing a surprising amount of peril to use the staff non stop when aiming head level.

I tried again a MKII and IV last week, green ones and it indeed felt easier on many enemies with the increased speed.

I feel a lot of weapons should get higher weak spot and critical bonus. The zealot heavy sword for example, is my favorite change from the MKV axe but seriously lacks damage as soon as you get into heresy+.

Sadly we will probably need a year or two to have some weapons balanced satisfyingly.

It does unless you have a good head taker blessing. With +50-+75% power depending on the level of the blessing heavy sword pumps extremely good damage. Throw in a cleave blessing and you probably have the best melee horde clear in the game. If you abuse Crucian on top of all that it honestly starts to feel like cheating.

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I have Rampage on mine so I didn’t even notice that it has worse horde effectiveness. Then again I also usually just use my peril-transferring void to deal with trash. I still spam tons of specials fighting hordes because again it gives you L3 right away which is worth 2 regular swings in terms of damage.