it’s also funny how a little sword can stun crushers, interrupting their attacks (special attack)
but things like thunder hammer, or eviscerator special attack does not even stagger them, eviscerator especially not even being able to stunlock a crusher when revving…
On this point, specifically, I agree with you.
It is fine that it staggers ragers, but not that it staggers crushers / ogryns.
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yea it’s also one of the things that make that sword very strong (clutch wise etc.)
i’d say it would be ok if they get stunned if hit the head after 1 or 2 special attacks but it seems like even if you do a special attack on their body they will get temporarily stunned for few seconds (which gives other time to land more heavies)
the ds special attack open bulwarks shield as if it was using plasma or bolter in ads but just with one single special attack. i guess maybe a bit more fair on bulwarks but on crushers idk.
My opinion is that most of the damage done in the game is irrelevant, because it’s horde (poxwalkers, groaners, bruisers) damage. A zealot with a mk4 dueling sword will mostly do melee elites and boss damage.
Horde is more of an obstacle than a real threat to players.
Edit: I mean, some horde clear is mandatory, but in the grand scheme of things the total damage is irrelevant to this discussion.
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You’re not wrong about this…
That’s why I use a tweaked scoreboard also.
My scoreboard shows the number of elite / special you killed, and by enemy type.
So you can see how many crushers someone killed, same for ragers etc.
And to say the least, the numbers go together. When someone deals an insane amount of damages, he is usually the one that also deal with threats.
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taking out the real major threats very quickly make the game very easy.
and lot of zealots do skip on purpose horde or small melee enemies cause the major threats for them are ranged enemies / elites / specials / bosses
they can deal the horde too obviously but they tend to have other targets
that’s why i think the issue with that sword is how easily can take down threats like crushers in few seconds.
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then it should also be a problem for vet shovel, pick axes, latrine shovel, power sword, force sword etc.
A lot of weapons do that.
I can deal with elite / special the same way with my achlys. This is actually my preferred weapon… it lacks a bit of cleave (i don’t want huge cleave, I want the same cleave as rashad), but the weapon will deal the same even better than the DS.
Typical attack with an achlys, you have 3 scab gunners, you use fury the faithful with an heavy attack, 3 scab gunners on floor.
Only point where DS is better, is for dealing with carapace. But Achlys is not bad, however you get in problem if there are a lof of them (maelstrom melee is ridiculous on this). But you’re better for other elites / specialists.
As somebody who loves zipping around the map, I wouldn’t like a movement reduction to be the nerf for DS. OTOH, I’d be fine with a general reduction in the weapon movement bonuses. (As a side note: It bugs me that Chainsword isn’t any faster than Evis.)
I think DS could do with a nerf to both horde clear (if only a small one) and ability vs Carapace. DS should have a high Finesse bonus, and if you want to wreak Carapace you need Rending or Brittleness. Preferably, IMO, from something other than a DS blessing: This is a coop game - seek some benefit from teamwork.
OTOH, I could get behind the idea of DS being nerfed enough, in its raw stats, that players can get good horde clear or good anti-armor (or might that be “single target”?) via Blessings, but the weapon can’t be good at everything at once.
What I might really like seeing is DS marks reflect a saber, a rapier, and say, a scimitar?
Rapier for powerful single-target thrusts, poor horde clear. Saber has better horde clear, worse single target (but also isn’t as reliant on weak-spot hits), and scimitar has even better horde clear, but is worse against armor.
As long as I’m wishing: Toss an off-hand pistol in there somewhere.
Dueling sword trivializes ragers.
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not a single one of the weapons you mentioned can kill 5 crushers in 10 seconds like ds does
the reason isn’t damage because as you have noted they have enough (still less than ds but enough)
it’s because you actually have to time your hits, use combos and be overall somewhat mindful when using those
not the ds though, just spam heavy + dodge and crushers, ragers, monstrosities, maulers, gunners, mutants, everything kills itself. its ridiculous
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You can deal with ragers with a lot of ways…
My preferred is ranged weapons…
But still you can deal with them also with a combat axe (but sure you have to “dance” with them)
And you can also kill them easily with an heavy sword (VI or VII). You don’t even have to use special, they will just be constantly staggered.
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Power sword can… and can even do better than DS on this.
Note, that I don’t try to say that DS is weak, or not good.
I just say that it is not so extraordinary that it needs a nerf, considering the power level actually in the game we all have.
But I have said it by the past… if they balance the game (so nerf everything too strong to something balanced), then here, sure, DS would deserve a good nerf.
power sword? the one that needs to activate in order to deal any damage, and then use a push attack that spends stamina and opens you up to being staggered if you want to deal similar damage to duelling sword, which will just spam it’s incredibly fast heavy with insane reach?
the same power sword that has mobility on par with eviscerator, -12% dodge distance with top roll? the one that is absolutely terrible against elites if you cannot activate it and thus forcing you to be careful since if you ever get caught on the defense without time to activate it, you will most likely take damage or even die because you can neither attack effectively nor get away with it’s poor mobility?
that power sword is what you think is powerful enough not to be laughable when compared with ds?
no, it’s nowehere near ds. just go and try to melee a mixed horde of ~30 bruisers, 4 ragers and 4 bulwarks using power sword and ds and you’ll see why. a reality check, if i may say so.
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Yes this one that can kill cut crushers like if it was butter. And you don’t even need to aim the head…
And to say the least, that’s usually why I take it… with the fact that it can deal with any enemies of the game, excepted monstrosities.
oh so the same as ds except slower, with worse mobility and having to activate - none of which is needed for ds lmao
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You deal more damages with a PS, and you don’t even need to aim something.
Again, if they nerf too strong weapons, DS should be nerfed. But with the actual garbage balance, DS is not so strong.
PS is fine cause not really used as players think it is bad. And it is fine that it can deal insane damages without aiming, considering what exists.
And DS is fine as it is… you have to aim to kill but you are more mobile.
And again, they nerf too strong weapons, I agree DS needs a nerf. They don’t, DS is balanced at the level of power we actually have.
more? okay you’re clueless.
ps at best deals similar damage to ds and only when its activated lol and with worse mobility. and thats on veteran, zealot is in whole another league
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Yes… I know it hurts.
A veteran can go melee. With my melee veteran, last time I played, I have dealt more melee damages than the 3 other teammates… that were all zealots (including one with DS - Auric damnation - histg).
And yes it hurts… PS is so strong… but reread what I said above (i edited to add something).
I just say that DS is currently fine considering the power level they have given us. I don’t say this is fine, I think a lot of things should be balanced (nerfed, or sometimes buffed).
But if they don’t fix other weapons, I don’t see any reason to nerf the DS that will instantly become garbage (and players will return to daggers).
However, at the moment they will start to balance things, yes DS should be nerfed. However, if something has to be nerfed, in my opinion, it should be its ability to deal with hordes and the special should not be so good.
ds 4 heavy (uncanny stacked)
no talents:
full melee tree:
ps 6 push attack
no talents:
full melee tree:
ds has same damage except sacrifices nothing, no risk and is better at everything lmao. stop lying, get real.
I check later (at work)
Stop insulting…
at one I can be wrong, and even strangely I can admit it.
But I don’t lie.
A lie is an intentional false statement… and there is nothing intentional. But I could be wrong, I check myself this evening with a veteran and the 2 weapons.
I see at first that there were 5 hits, at second only one. As I say, I will check.