if calling you out on what you’re doing insults you then perhaps stop doing it
you’re talking as if you thought that i checked the numbers just now to prove that you’re wrong, after we started arguing
no, i have tested this when the update came out - this, eviscerator, thunder hammer, knife, pickaxe and chainaxe. everyone knew ds is gonna be broken, people checked it and it proved to be true because who would have thought that this weapon is hella op. most people who know their way around this game did exactly that
what i did now is went into the game to get the screenshots because i’ve met enough people like you to know that showing you how wrong you are is the only way to make you to stop for a moment and think if perhaps you do in fact lack critical information
you didn’t actually know for a fact that ds doesn’t have equal dps on crushers as ps when starting to argue, you just thought thats the case and didn’t even bother to check because you just assumed everyone operates the same way you do - people only check things after being proven wrong instead of before starting an argument, obviously! so you’re free to start an argument and waste my time
there is one hit in both cases, ds just has stackable blessings lmao
Calling someone a liar is insulting.
Quote me one time where I called someone a liar. Try it.
I don’t… I said I will check.
I just see that the second picture shows uncanny at 5 stacks. And it should not happen in one hit.
But as I say… I will test.
Actually, I discuss on a forum. Guess what…
discussion: the action or process of talking about something in order to reach a decision or to exchange ideas.
I can be wrong… I can be also convinced by what others say.
If you’re just here to try to attack others or try to “win” the discussion, you’re not interesting.
If you’re here to discuss.. then that’s ok.
You point one fact. I will check by myself before engaging more in the discussion
By the time remaining, if you just want to attack me, tell me… then we could end here the “discussion”.
I think the disconnect is that while you want to discuss it, he wants to argue about it. I see each approach used about equally on this forum, leaning toward arguing. I’d guess it’s the Butcher’s Nails.
I’m tempted to discuss the difference between being wrong, being careless or even negligently wrong (which seems to actually be the meat of his accusation), and lying, but - in going with the prevailing zeitgeist - perhaps I should be needlessly confrontational and say that OxygenCrimson is an idiot both for assuming you’re negligent, and then leaping from that to calling you a liar …
But, heck, if I’m merely going to say “idiot” and sidetrack things into word choice, it hardly seems worth the trouble. Yes, it’s puerile, but is it puerile enough? You know, for the zeitgeist.
Instead, I’ll say that when it comes to the difference between the PS and the DS, I’m firmly on his side. IMO the damage difference is too small to justify the DS’s mobility, ease-of-use, and dodge advantage. The horde clear on a PS is pretty awesome, but I don’t think that makes nearly enough of a difference. Horde clear is too easy to come by.
Switching tracks, I think something that’s not been touched on enough is the identity or “flavor” of the weapons. It makes a lot of sense of a PS to work well against armor. That’s the point of the “power,” IIRC. But then the DS is so effective without “power.” This wasn’t quite so bad when the psyker gained the capacity via something literally “uncanny,” but now everybody has the same space-magic.
To have the DS be so good against armor attacks the suspension of disbelief, and that’s not fun.
Trying to keep up with the convo, I can’t help but notice the weapons you point to as OP not only have no mobility but need an extra step + time investment for the crusher kill.
PS needs activation and the push-stab, i forget if there’s a one shot BP but the follow up attack comes out for the two shot fast enough.
Pickaxe, well tbh I don’t feel a need to defend it, but that slowness has to count for something.
I know crusher killing isn’t the be-all end-all, btw, that just seems to be an easy focus point.
PS deals less damages on carapace than the DS. This is not equal, this is just less (not by much, but it is significant).
I tested with no blessing and no perk impacting the damages.
And without any talent picked.
I tested also the vet shovel with the special attack. Here this is not the same (shovel is better than DS and PS).
So, the conclusion is that it may be a little too strong. But still, I really think that this weapon should be good at single target and bad with hordes.
The PS deal really well with horde.
But, from the tests, the PS is clearly under the DS against carapace.
I don’t really use the PS unless it’s charged, and it’s the only weapon I use with the vet. Hate everything else.
So, reducing the cleave and slightly reducing the mobility would put the pressure on landing precision strikes consistently or risk being overwhelmed. If it’s still too strong, could reduce carapace damage or damage overall. If they do triple nerfs, it’s going to infuriate the players, so as a starting point, reduce:
slight mobility nerf, cleave, carapace, or overall damage.
I think overall damage might be enough, but nerfing flat overall damage when they’ve buffed many weapons previously is a rough choice. If they nerf the light combo, people will just use the poke more with the mobility.
funnily enough i came across this video yesterday, and the guy mentions that this style of sword became popular after plate armor fell out of use, and because of this fact. so yeah, except for luckily stabbing someone in the eye slit, there’s not much one can do with it against an enemy in plate. at least, with a dagger one can wrestle the enemy and stab him between the plate joints.
The biggest outliers of DS and dagger are the finnesse damage bonuses. They are far higher than other finesse weapons (tac axe / cat sword).
This is problematic as this is the only double dipping stat in the game. A crit weakspot on 1.5% finesse results in more than double the damage.
Bring that together with the class traits/blessings increasing finesse damage multiplicatively this becomes a BIG problem.
My suggestion would be to reign finesse weapon stat in to match other assassin weapons and change all finesse boni to either crit damage or weakspot damage. Stop the double dipping!
Ok, played with it. Just to see if I was wrong. And I was.
Carapace damage on duelling sword should be nerfed. This is too strong, as it was said by others. However, the DS is also really too strong against hordes if we compare to combat blade.
This weapon should be balance toward the combat blade as it has a good mobility, and close to same characteristics.
In fact, actually, the DS can be greater than combat blade, especially cause you don’t need to backstab. And DS can do better at horde management.
I don’t know what has to be done on this weapon, but I suppose that combat blade should be better at single target. And so DS should still be good enough at horde management, while not being so good.
yea i think veteran not ironically has also good melee talent options than zealot for some reasons. but yea both to a degree strong, on zealot with blazing piety etc also can be strong with many high crits.
Single target yes. PS has insane damage cleave though (and BM) so against any decent sized group of smaller elites (horde too obviously but that DPS is less important) it is putting out significant amounts more DPS than DS.
Not that I’m particularly invested in a DS vs PS argument but PS’s total damage potential over a whole mission is definitely way higher, assuming you don’t get yourself killed with it of course.
They’re both top tier for different reasons and which you consider better is going to be subjective based on what qualities you value more. DS is obviously much easier to clutch with and I don’t deny that’s extremely valuable too.
That’s my feeling. Even if the test in psy shows clearly that DS does better against a crusher.
But, the ability of DS to chain kill carapace enemies is problematic when you consider also its ability at dealing with horde.
You can clearly see this in the absurd melee maelstrom
Nota: I say absurd cause too many crushers and mauler in maelstrom melee… I really would like that there are not an increased carapace spawns that make this modifier not really good for me. I really dislike this point…
