Nerf Uncanny and take away Thrust from IV. Problem solved.
I strongly doubt thrust is the issue here. Seems like a fun sidegrade blessing at best considering how quickly you can spam out uncharged heavies.
Also extra weird to single out thrust when Mk IV DS has been outshining the rest of Psyker’s melee options since before thrust was an available blessing for it.
Uncanny needs a hard nerf across the board to my mind. It’s just silly giving that much rending though a number of people here have said they don’t run Uncanny on it so its base carapace mod might just be too high to begin with? Or people are just bringing anti carapace ranged weapons so don’t feel they need it. I’ve always run DS with Uncanny so hopefully one of those that don’t can chime in with what their response to crushers is.
Regardless I have a feeling it might need further adjustment beyond blessings. It’s just too much DPS for that level of safety granted by the mobility and reach. Tuning down the finesse curve somewhat so it can’t be super charged to the current extent it is is currently what I’m feeling to be the most sensible approach.
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I totally agree with this… but even, they should also lower the move bonus. It is too strong.
If they nerf the move of daggers and DS, then all weapons have to get the same nerf.
Let’s quote myself…
I agree that rending is too strong and that several blessing AND talents should be nerfed. However, I have never picked uncanny on a DS.
If there is a problem with DS, it is its ability to deal with “hordes” and also single targets.
But, considering the damage level of this weapon, for me there is no actual problem. There will be the day where a DS could be used by a lot of players and forbid other teammates to play or that the use of this weapon becomes toxic.
As an example, the PS, even with its drawbacks, can do better DPS than the DS. It can cut in two parts crushers, kill a wave of ragers etc.
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Of the two I vote nerfing horde clear. Heavy sword and dclaw can be the horde swords.
Edit:
Thrust - net dps loss on any weapon compared to attacking twice. Synergises with alpha strike abilities like shroudfield or thunder hammer power up. Does well in its niche. Not an OP blessing and does not make the DS OP.
Uncanny strike - DS4 doesn’t need it to perform against armour, look at the damage breakdowns. It mostly functions as a stacking damage buff* that works against all targets (eg it gives 30% vs unarmoured). It’s basically headtaker when used on a DS4.
The DS has access to great blessings but they are not what makes this weapon overpowered.
(* For those who need a refresher, once you have enough rending to neutralise a target’s armour any surplus rending is converted into a smaller % damage buff. DS4 is already so good against armour that most of the Uncanny stack is converting into this damage overflow. It’s not quite as good as Headtaker would be but it’s close and DS doesn’t get Headtaker so Uncanny is a solid option that is easy to keep stacked.)
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exactly
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it is surprising how easily DS can double tap if not oneshotting crushers easily.
makes sense i guess because of the finesse and crit but should only achieve that damage if hitting the head. with ds even if you hit the body of a crusher deals still so massive damage for some reason.
yea this is true, pickaxes of ogryns are good and deals lot of damage to crushers
wonder if they need thrust to make them that good because of the thrust stacks
DS even without Thrust deals massive damage, but also not sure if a little sword like DS should be able to pierce carapace armor like that.
more slower with light attacks/low damage on lights?
for DS IV
wonder what about buffing for horde clear but nerfing the heavies. even though it is a mark specialized at single target, so prob would be not fun. but to me the damage on heavies are crazy, and not only that, thanks to this weapon does so well with certain synergies with the talents
I think it’s OK if there are some weapons that are good vs heavy targets. Take this away and psyker loses one of their three anti armour options (others are deimos and knife). There are plenty of anti horde options.
Atm it’s amazing vs large targets, solid vs small targets and one of the two BiS mobility options. Either nerf the performance vs large targets or vs small targets to give space for other weapons. My vote is to nerf it vs hordes because there are currently more options for horde clear.
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horde clear nerf seems good but not sure if it will fix the main issue imo, also because it is kinda slow to clear already
but the fact of the mobility, and the horde not really being a real threat, possible to kite all the horde and just dealing crushers, specials etc
it deals really a lot too much damage for crushers, it is fine to one tap specials, elites but being able to take out so easily, and quickly crushers it’s insane, that’s why i think only to crushers and a bit elites could get used some slightly nerf on damage
dclaw, heavy sword fun to use on hordes, and they do well, but imo hordes in game are currently a bit in a sad place too. (not that many rip)
dclaw i like also for parrying + ulting at the same time crushers oneshotting them lol but coming at one cost which is nice
but i feel like horde clear never been a real issue for any weapon, considering how it is easy to deal with the horde in first place.
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Good point. Look how popular the infected moebian modifier was.
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I disagree.
High mobility allows flanking. Staying near the team is not the universally best thing to be doing for the team. Teamplay does not equal proximity.
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can flank also with slow weapons honestly. but i agree when you say staying near the team is not always the right thing. i only stick to the team if they have difficulties/they are about to go down.
i think though knife heavies they give massive movement speed.
since i agreed above, yea but i’d say it does also at the same time. it just depends, or maybe it is because of the game that has major balance issues to not make it look like it is not equal. possible to help at distance etc. but i think game has still some issues with balance, but the games still fun to play regardless
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yes that was a cool fresh air, it seems like we may see them again in Havoc mode
hopefully they can do something more about hordes in auric damnation making them more stronger/good density
i wanna get scared when seeing a horde and struggle with that, not cleaving all 
for now they kinda function just as bodyblock objects trying to sorround the players and give difficulties in dodging specials like trappers, hounds etc. thats why i always prefer to kite so i have space to dodge eventual specials
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It is fine. There are few weapons that can deal with Crushers as melee weapons.
We have:
- Combat Axe: All of them are mediocre. The best is Achlys, but even that is far from a good weapon. To be thorough, with Achlys, you should aim for a Mauler’s head only if you have thrust. In all other situations, aim for the chest.
- Daggers: Good.
- Dueling Swords (DS): Good.
- Thunder Hammer: Can one-shot a Crusher in most situations with a good build.
- Crusher: From my memory, this is good but not excellent.
- shovels (too good at everything)
- pick axe (too good at everything)
- PS (op)
- FS obscurus and deimos
The problem—if it can be called one, considering how many weapons are above average (PS, FS, pickaxes, shovels [ogryns and Vet], to name a few)—could be that this weapon handles both hordes and single threats.
However, many weapons can do that. I’ve already listed several.
The fact that this weapon has good mobility does not increase its power, but it does enhance survivability.
That said, I have only ever seen one instance where someone dealt an insane amount of damage with it. Believe me, I’ve seen a lot of scoreboards showing insane damage from pickaxes, multiple times from a Vet using a PS (even after the nerf), and plenty of 2–3x damage outputs from Psyker staves.
In my opinion, people are upset about mobility, as always. But how many players wait for their teammates?
From my experience, there are players who do, and I’m glad because it justifies the cooperative aspect of the game. However, a lot of random players don’t care.
And this behavior isn’t limited to the loner Zealot (a build I rarely see in my games) or DS users. It’s all builds that allow for high mobility.
So, I really wonder: Why do players want to see Daggers/Dueling Swords nerfed? Because they’re too strong? I don’t believe that. At least, that’s not what I see.
Sure, there are players skilled enough to make these weapons look great, but those same players could achieve similar results with any good weapon.
Or is it because players are simply upset about high-mobility weapons? That’s what I think is happening.
As I said, I haven’t seen situations where DS users kill enemies so quickly that others are “forbidden” from playing. I’ve seen it with Daggers—especially with Shroudfield—but not with DS (though I’m sure it can happen).
The real question is: Are DS truly too good? Do they deal more damage than, say, a pickaxe?
If you genuinely believe DS are above every other weapon, then yes, they are overpowered and should be nerfed. But if other weapons outperform them, then you’d have to nerf all the stronger weapons too. And that list would include nearly every good weapon in the game.
Final thoughts: If anything about DS needs nerfing, it’s their ability to handle both hordes and single threats. Considering their design, they should excel at single-target damage but be less effective against hordes.
This is especially true since weapons like Catachan Swords and Heavy Swords (which I find too similar) are already good at dealing with hordes.
Edit: corrected grammar and phrasing with my beloved ChatGPT… tell me if it worse than my poor english 
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with also doing a special activation, meanwhile DS so easily and without.
and the special activation + charging a heavy with the thrust stucks can be very slow, it also stun locks you for a while. i get the comparison but needs to consider how convenient DS is.
not all duelling sword… there are like 3 marks, they can’t be the same. IV excel at single target, another excel a bit more in horde clear and the other it’s a mixture between the both.
in fact the other duelling sword are okayish, the IV one is the problem.
You have several ways to one shot a crusher… all of them need something else than just an heavy hit in the head of a crusher.
You can have to dodge (duellist), you can have to use thrust, you can use shroufield etc…
But alone, the DS does not one shot the crusher.
Being convenient does not make this weapon… overpowered.
Again, in my book (scoreboard), this is not something I can see. And as I said, a lot of weapons deal a lot more DPS than this tiny sword.
But don’t get me wrong… DS is strong, and does not need a buff… I have never said that. I just say that there are better weapons in term of damages.
And considering how this community see the gameplay, killing fast and more is always better.
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yes true, but overall, it does massive damage so quick. (dps)
especially with doing heavies chained into special attacks resetting animation and being able to land other heavies quick in a row.
it will take out all crushers too way quick, like you were eating them as breakfast