Eh to be fair, as an older gamer myself, the meaning is pretty much anything that’s reduced in power, usually qualified with modifiers like “light” or “to hell” etc.
It’s been this way for at least a decade now afaik, I believe it changed some over time so you’re probably remembering that.
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Me arguing semantics against a group that has accepted the shift toward near-meaninglessness:
But instead lets merge four of them and provide this thing to ogryn, call it fork. Unleash the forkenstien mosta!
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It’s not only how much kills you get, but how much resources you lost during that. High damage weapons shouldn’t be safe or easy to use.
If a weapon allows to have 40% of elite kills and provides high mobility so you can dodge everyhing - it’s OP.
It’s always has been like that - high skill high reward, flexing squishy assassin, etc. But being both tanky, mobile and high damage is too safe and comfy, it’s just wrong.
Nowhere zealot with DS or knife is the same as Kerillian shade or waystalker in V2.
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You taken my comment out of context since it wasn’t referring to DS, but I agree with your take.
Since this is obviously an important point, I did a little poking around. The earliest reference seems to be to Ultima Online, where players complained that they seemed to be using nerf swords. So the implication, I would agree, is severely underpowered.
However, I’ve found no subsequent reference that explicitly includes a severe decrease, most seem neutral, and a few specify only enough decrease to achieve balance.
OTOH, there were and are always those who abhor decreases in power - the psychology seems obvious. From the quick typing fingers of such people the letters n.e.r.f. will always reek of ruin and despair.
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Well damn, I was thinking 3 , one between each knuckle like Wolverine claws, but I’m told 4 is more than 3 so let’s go with your idea!
I mean, if this doesn’t make you laugh, then I don’t know what to say.
Speaking of, I just finished an auric maelstrom I-II-V-E-G game. I played zealot with tac axe 7. My team was another two zealots, both with dueling swords, and a vet with dueling sword and bolter. That game got trivialized beyond words, with me mostly being surplus to requirement.
It should be obvious to anyone not playing with their eyes closed that dueling swords need a nerf. Also this should be a lesson for Fatshark in why you can’t just share weapons across classes without consequences.
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I feel this is partly it, while part of the reason is that we (Psykers) didn’t really have any melee tools, so if one was running around meleeing things all you where doing was dashing around a bunch and then falling over.
(I know I also ran the MK V for basically my whole existence until this update, because I thought ‘ohh it’s the one with Defense and Mobility, that must mean it’s the one that makes you go super fast and dodge a lot’, ohh what a fool I was…)
But now the update made people open to actually experiment, the other classes got access to it, and suddenly everyone’s running around just tripping over everything with the IV. And to say ‘just put it back on Psyker’ doesn’t even work, because now we DO have melee talents (largely just 10% attack speed, but it’s a marvel how much that actually does…) along with Scriers getting it’s CDR reduced to a reasonable value, so now you can consistently fly around with ‘almost respectable’ stats as a melee Psyker and take like a hit or too without falling over, while also being so fast you’ll only ever take a hit or two before you’re 3 football fields away.
So yeah, will say/agree that ‘locking it back to Psyker’ will just make squishier Zealots run around XD
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Agree. The weapon is broken and has to be nerfed - heavily.
It has no weak sides, and all the strong sides are not just ‘strong’, they are absolute god tier. It has enormous elite damage to all types of armor, incredible movement, very quick strikes (even the heavy one!) that makes it insanely safe to engage with any kind of enemy, supreme mobility and dodges, far reach, the most powerful special stagger attack in the game that is also the fastest and borderline brainless attack pattern that makes accessing all of it’s overpowered glory trivial.
And no, it wasn’t fine when it was only on Psyker. It was just as overpowered there and effectively killed most other melee choices on the class. I advocated to nerf it before Unlocked & Loaded since I wanted a reason to use other melee weapons on my Psyker - but since the issue has not only been ignored back when fixing it would have made a minor impact but instead bloated through giving the weapon to more classes, now it has to be nerfed into oblivion.
Perhaps back on Psyker a small tweak like removing Uncanny Strike from its blessing pool, decreasing its finesse multiplier or reducing its range would have been enough - but we’re past that point. The thing has to be brought back in line, hard. Zarona, Plasma Gun and Purgatus can wait for the time being as far as I’m concerned.
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I dunno I play each class for their differences at this point and Psyker has quite possibly the most addictive and skill intensive interaction with the knife of all. The absolute grease on that movement that very regularly pushes 8 meters a second with the movetech…it was hard to set aside for me even when dueling sword was exclusive. And now there’s even more melee talents, knife psyker is eating good.
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Can’t wait for fatshark to bring the nerf bat and absolutely trash the dueling sword because some people get personally offended at the prospect of a single weapon out like 40 being overly effective, crying that they have no reason to use anything else or that it ‘ruins their enjoyment of the game’.
First of all, nobody is making you use the omg so overpowered busted stuff. You’re welcome to choose any of the other weapons which are by no means bad or unusable and have immensly higher cool factor than the dueling sword.
Second, the game does not get ‘dumbed down’ because you’re using a good weapon, people act like having the DS one somehow negates the need to have any other skills necessary to utilize it.
Third, quit arguing that people are ‘‘stealing your spotlight’’ or in any other way prevent you from enjoying the game. You’re playing a coop game with randoms and its bound to happen that someone in your team will outperform everyone else, overpowered weapons or not. (And by the way, i’d wager most people crying about the dueling sword in particular are nowhere near good enough to make use of its great killing potential to the degree they complain about).
Honest to god, if the end-game challenge didn’t boil down to having to quickly delete packs of 40 crushers and bulwarks we would not be complainign about a weapon being able to excel in this gameplay environment. Nerf the hilarious armored elite numbers first and then adjust anti-armor weapons, not the other way around.
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But them being overpowered prevents me from using them as I want to play my video games, rather than have my ludicrously overpowered weaponry trivialize my game. The game is too easy even with bottom bin gear. Balance is not a dirty word. Reigning in a weapon that is unhinged is not a bad thing it is a good thing that creates a healthy play space.
Nerfing a weapon to the ground is bad, balancing a weapon is good.
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Tbh, the idea is not stupid. I have seen it applied in an other game and for the magic class. It was called neocron. In this game there was a Psi Monk class. And this class was weak, a lot weak.
As offensive Psi Monk you would deal insane AOE damages. As defensive, you were close to immortal and you could buff your friends and debuff enemies. And to say the least, you had to specialize as offensive (APU standing for Aggressive psi use) or defensive (PPU standing for Passive psi use).
But this game was relying on such differences. The private eye was a class at the middle of anything (but no psi powers that were exclusive to the psi monks). A class where you could do whatever you want, but you would never excel in anything.
The spy was weak and had no way to become more resistant. This class was relying on stealth and was dealing lot of damages (but not with an area of effect).
Finally you had the GenTank. A class that was dealing less damages, had tools to deal AOE damages but could resist to anything. So a tank.
In this game, it was working great. And tbh, the big differences were well implemented and I have never feel that the classes were unbalanced. Just cause each of them were on a different area.
In Darktide, however, we are far from this. In fact, in Darktide, the classes give you different gameplays. You can play melee, ranged… But even if the psyker is weaker, he has tools to face the threats he will encounter. Same for Ogryn about damages, he can pick talents to permit him to deal a lot of damages.
At the end, the difference are about gameplay. A psyker don’t die more than the other classes. You can play a melee veteran. You can play an anti elite/special on any class (actually we see a lot of zealot with bolter that waste a lot of ammos… 
).
In fact, the system in Darktide is pretty different. You are asked to adapt the gameplay of your class.
However, in Dakrtide, there is no class weaker, and no class that should deal more damages. Things are favored, but still, you can go for a damage dealer, a more resistant role etc. Of course, an Ogryn is the class that you should pick to play a tank… however, you have tools to do the same on a zealot, veteran (by going toughness) or even psyker (with abilities / toughness build and skill).
You can deal insane damages with all classes (but still a lot more with a psyker that use staves).
So, I disagree with you generally speaking, however, for Darktide, you’re totally right. This idea can’t work in this game considering how they have built classes.
You say its too easy, I say i don’t care if its easy or hard as long as its engaging (and to me it is).
We might argue back and forth but its all on fatshark to decide which way they wanna go, and I sincerely hope they don’t give in to the nerf requests. And personally, I’m not gonna feel like a weapon ‘trivializes the game for me’ because, as i said, i have a choice to not use it.
What I dont have, is any right to tell people what they should and should not be using, or if they should feel bad for using something broken or not. Most players are not forum dwellers, they don’t give a rats ass about whats meta and what not, they come in, kill stuff with guns they like and leave.
If you feel like you’re not challenged enough, wait for havoc and see if that fulfills your need for challenge rather than taking away power from everyone else for the sake of arbitrary balance you seem to believe is the correct one.
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exactly ( i watched your video on this earlier today).
balance is like, you have a chest full of weapons and you wonder which one you should take, because they all have their strength and weaknesses and you can play well with all of them.
however, one clearly standing out so you’re hobbling yourself if you pick something else is not balanced.
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running grey weapons doesn’t make people feel challenged, it makes people feel like they’re running a neutered version of the weapon… because effectively they are
Running grey weapons and seeing the screen wiped by a soulblaze psyker or plasma vet is not fun, it’s genuinely boring.
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Watched your video and it sounds good on paper, but how good is it for a slightly above average player sandwiched between two silent hordes when they have to clutch? Your recent video with the chainaxe, and now the dueling sword, have shown you using these weapons in an area in which you can use a circular path to kite the entire string of enemies endlessly without monstrosities popping up and so forth. This is not an accurate representation of commonly encountered situations, and definitely not within the ability of a slightly above average player with a psyker on high peril or a dumb, well meaning friendly mucking up the works.
I don’t really have an opinion on the weapon yet other than it’s carapace crushing ability, but the video doesn’t show me much in terms of horde clear. I’ll test it myself to see.
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it does a “bit” too good compared to other weapons making other weapons basically a bit pointless.
kiting enemies, included monstrosities it is very easy to do with a high mobility weapon that is duelling sword, paired with “agile” having infinite dodges in a constant way, which is kinda crazy, and it seems to be a blessing dedicated only for duelling sword only.
regarding about “casuals” yes, sometimes people can use duelling sword and not even being able to use it, but that’s on them because of mechanical skill.
the weapon is sadly objectively a bit too strong, i say bit so FS doesn’t “nerf them to the ground” but nerfing in a fair way that it will be still fun to use.
eviscerators for example kinda struggle to everything while DS does infinitely better, MK IV is kinda cheating for real
why someone would pick up evis if DS exists?
that’s the thing also to consider
someone could argue, “you can still build other stuff and play other weapons” which is fair but doesnt hold up that much
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