if DS gets nerfed, i hope to see knife nerfed too though
along with other weapons + buffing some that have been power crept a lot
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… i mean, how good is it when a slightly above average player isn’t clutching?
An above average player isn’t, like, bad at the game and we’re talking about a melee weapon almost everyone is using.
I guess I don’t get the sentiment because I’ve never seen anyone complain about a weapon enabling a clutch. I never see anyone complain about someone clutching with a plasmagun. No one’s saying “oh I’m ded and watching other people have fun” and no one’s saying “oh im clutching, why is this weapon so OP.”
Ok, I’ll bite.
First off, everyone is not using the weapon, and, of the people I’ve seen, they haven’t been particularly impressive in anything other than mobility.
Second, at Reginald’s level of play, he doesn’t really panic with any weapon he’s using in almost any scenario, relatively speaking. He plays solo all the time. I’m simply advising that Reg in a big room where he can kite isn’t representative of anything but performance at the highest skill level with a maxed weapon, flawless movement tech, and complete map awareness.
I agree with pretty much everything he says, but these videos didn’t really showcase a less than ideal situation. What it can do to mutants is pretty impressive. I’ve never seen anyone stop a mutant to their face though, so it must be a pretty high skill maneuver if “everyone” is using the weapon. Maybe I just didn’t notice.
because they’re completely different playstyles?
People choose different weapons because they have varying playstyles. I choose to play with the Eviscerator because it’s a visceral experience and it’s fun to play with and see at work. Hearing the chain biting into armor, ripping and tearing through hordes, it’s a very different experience from the clean deliberate strikes from the DS.
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Perfect example of power creep right here. Everyone raving about Evic after its patch 13 buffs. New Evic comes out, widely considered pretty stupid overpowered.
Neither weapon is nerfed, now apparently they “struggle” because we’re given alternatives that are significantly more brain dead.
This cycle is so so goddamn tiring.
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I’d say IoD nerf had a huge impact on Evis, since you can’t just spam FotF nearly as much. Even if it was an indirect nerf, it is a nerf.
I wouldn’t say it’s “struggling” tho.
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ymmv, I see it every game unless there’s four ogryns
He showed what the weapon can do mechanically. Do we really need recorded evidence of how people less skilled than him perform with it?
If the video can’t be from him, I could make a video of me playing like I have arthritis with a controller? But no matter how bad I do, the weapon is still at its core too good and I’m playing a game where high skill players and low skill players occupy the same space unless they have a premade or using the true solo mod.
I haven’t either, but, muties charge right at you, I don’t think it’s going to be hard for slightly above average players to do.
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That’s kinda true but its peak performance has always been under the Martyrdom keystone.
this.
The last time I played a few pub matches I literally walked into nothing but 4 stacks of dueling swords. But that’s hardly a representative sample. Its simply the consensus that its the most powerful melee weapon among higher tier players, not least because of its mobility.
The problem I’m hoping to highlight is that most weapons cannot even do this. Try it with an eviscerator or a thunder hammer (which are really the only weapons in competition for the clear speeds of the Dueling Sword Mk4) and you will get caught and have to fight. It might be “possible” and maybe i’m just not good enough. But i’m not exactly a weak player and I can’t do it. I usually need to whip out a fast pistol like the BP to kite like that. So you have a weapon that has the mobility of a knife with the TTK of a Thammer and the use safety of a knife. Its clearly not sensible.
thank you
It is the second best possible choice for this difficult situation because of its safety, mobility and fighting profiles. Most of surviving problems like this is in mobility and stagger. With good mobility and decent cleaving attacks and the ability to shove enemies you should be able to (and I have) dug myself out of nasty situations. The only weapon that is better is the Indignatus Crusher because its a stun-stick.
thank you
Its worse than that. A lot of people were like ‘why not buff everything else’ and the reason is simple - a weapon that nears the ideal weapon doesn’t leave much room for meaningful choices. I’ve been trying to figure out how to explain for a while and I think I will use my funny graph again.
The DS4 is almost a perfect weapon. It has like one half of a downside. If you buff everything to the same degree then all weapons will be nearing the grey line. The more you squish them to the top the less meaningful diversity there will be. When the thunder hammer has 5 dodges and no-self stun and the same swing speed as the dueling sword (all objectively better traits) then they’re barely even different weapons at that point. Why care? Why pick anything over anything else? it’ll all feel the same and be the same.
Optimization is the enemy here. Thus weapons must have positives and negatives in order to be part of a fun and dynamic range of weaponry and nothing should land too close to the grey line too consistently or it’ll just be “the best.”
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evis xv rev so worse than the chainaxe rev xD
still surprising to see how chainaxe deals way better at revving with damage, better stunning crushers, scab maulers and also good horde clear, while evis xv barely does damage to armoured enemies unless ulting with dash. still has decent horde clear at least.
chainaxe feels good and fun to play and balanced well, but sadly i don’t think evis feel that great still, and not because DS made it pointless to use. but i agree about power creep in general.
and now that DS came out, it replaced kinda any weapon, as in it became too way a perfect weapon. the only struggle of ds may be horde clear but the fact can deal so easily to crushers, maulers staggering them just with special attacks and then doing heavies, and oneshotting elites is crazy, while also having high mobility, better dodge counts and good dodge distance, where evis does indeed struggle compared, especially difficulties with crushers etc despite revving and the low mobility.
but yea its power creep. even tho i think evis should get some love still, ds should be nerfed.
After using it today, I can definitely say that if many other weapons - like the chainaxe - had mobility like that they would be far more powerful. You can just pivot and move to mitigate their problems pretty much endlessly. Once I got the good Mk, even without good blessings at 350 power, it was a beast on my psyker. I actually stabbed a Mutie in the face, it didn’t stun him, but I was able to dodge out of the way anyway because of the mobility.
I am forced to agree that, even though I’d rather they focus on buffing the other weapons with problems, the thing at 500 with access to so many strong blessings will be way too powerful. The psyker has enough problems for it to be tolerated, but I can see why throwing it on the other classes is a major problem.
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The one thing I forgot about Evic balance where it was kinda nerfed was the FotF change from downgrading armour to a sort of rending. Since it has higher than 1x mod against flak I’m pretty sure its FotF damage against Carapace was better before that change, and I would like that remedied if I’m remembering all those details correctly.
Other than that I think it performs fine and doesn’t need anything.
very rare to see in auric damnation to be honest and for a reason, it is useable and it’s fine but really a niche. especially because horde clearing it’s never an issue nowadays, especially since games sometimes can’t spawn hordes etc. evis rev against carapace is meh, compared to the chainaxe that can even stagger/stun with lights and do way more damage which makes evis in general a bit underwhelming, despite being fine as weapon. and some of the evis not even able to stun crushers when revving unlike chainaxe…
correct me if i’m wrong, (but i don’t think cause i played with the weapon)
i find it weird that any revved light attack of chainaxe can perma stun a crusher, and a revved heavy or light from an evis can’t even stunlock a crusher… which not only doesn’t make sense but it’s unfun to rev at crushers if they can’t get stunlocked like chainaxe does. especially at multiple crushers with the low mobility… they luckily made that you can dodge when revving stuff but didn’t solve much the issue. one of the reasons why it is not very used compared to chainaxe.
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You really don’t need to tell me the virtues of Chaxe I’ve been stanning it since long before it was actually good. Yeah agreed stunning things you’re latched onto would be fair.
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This was like all Zealot weapons, they mostly hit flak for bonus so that change was bad if it was to encourage melee use specifically. Especially for things that ate flak but did no carapace armor like heavy sword. It was also a lot cooler than just doing Rending again.
As for staggering the chainaxe lights won’t catch crusher overhead…but you can grab them after pretty easy. The chainaxe is pretty niche and all about single target picking though. It doesn’t get massive sweeps that can possibly cleave armor hitstop (this was the real nerf behind Evis, having basic 100% FoTF swings with Perfect Strike was on an entirely different level).
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i have played a lot before the buffs it got as well. and i just meant to add more context doing a comparison between the chain weapons. glad to hear you know and agree that evis could get some love as well.
so returning to “it doesn’t need anything” it’s not really right or fair. evis could get use to some love, not extreme buffs, just some love to make it fun to play just like chain axe. because it is actually very rare to see in first place in auric damnation, let alone maelstorms.
i agree in general about power creep however, as in, duelling swords making look like other weapons bad. but there are actually some weapons that are still bad. it is good to see what’s overtuned (ds) but it is also good to see what’s been left in the dust, auto pistol shredder, etc.
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nerfing ds will be good, but it won’t make evis any useable, will be still unfun to use (at least imo)
should for sure get the ability to stun crushers when revving. and its weird when it comes to eviscerator cause sometimes it does seem to do it, but most of the time it doesn’t which is not consistent and very bad.
what you mean by this? that it can’t stun crushers when they are doing an overhead?
i tested now and it can stun crushers doing an overhead with a rev light.
There are a lot of weapons that seem too strong.
People get upset about high mobility weapons… but still, this is not the weapons that deal absolutely biggest damages.
I see pick axes doing better damages… I see a lot of things doing better damages.
And I see also weaker weapons (tactical axes, autopistol mainly)…
The stronger weapons have not been nerfed for close to one year. The weaker are not buffed for, also one year.
I am not sure that Fatshark has a plan to nerf things… Sometimes they nerf things, but it is really rare. Most of the times, they have buffed too weak weapons (example, Recon lasguns)
Evis and DS are not playing on same ground. And I see a lot of eviscerators.
I still think that the weapons, with some rare exceptions that could need adjustments, are good. But still, there are several talents that change a weapon when you pick them.
Examples:
- duellist on zealot
- precision strikes on veteran
- crunch! on ogryn
For psyker, I don’t know. I have finished the penances yesterday, However, I still remain a bad psyker, so I won’t talk about something I know very badly… but what I see is that psyker players can deal insane damages (double or even triple the average damages of others).
Really I think a big part of what we see as too strong, come from talent trees. Now the question is, do they need to fix that?
Cause it would mean to nerf these talents (and of course in a similar course for all classes -or it would make one class bad while others would remain too good).
Considering what Fatshark did on balance for the last year… I don’t think it will happen. But a +30% damage on weakspots (precision strikes) is really what turns a good weapon in a too strong one.
Now the question is: does the DS is also too strong on veteran? Cause if it is too strong only on zealot, then it is a zealot problem.
Perso, I actually see less players picking DS, even as zealot. I see more and more boltgun, and we can see again the “I need ammos” messages spamming from zealots that use it in automatic mode.
You’re talking about eviscerator? I have seen several good players with eviscerator, and they usually do better, in term of damages, than one with a DS.
Why wanting to nerf all weapons with high mobility??
I strongly disagree, and even if rushers are annoying. But you can rush with several other weapons. And the problem are the players that are not playing as a team.
Well, if you could not do that, what would be the interest in taking this weapon?
If I pick an antax axe, I know that I can dodge as I will use light attacks a lot.
If I pick an evis or an achlys combat axe, I know that I won’t be in position to really favors dodges.
Considering the damages dealt by a thunderhammer, I am glad that the thunderhammer does not permit you to dodge like a duelling sword!
On this I agree. But if I had to nerf something on the DS, it would not be its mobility. Cause this is what make it unique.
If I had to nerf it, I would nerf its ability to deal with hordes.
But still… we had the revolver and the hand cannon too strong for 1 year, the light shot of plasma that cleave too much for one year, the void staff that can cleave through anything and that deal insane damages for more than one year, the pick axes that deal insane damage and that can deal with anything for several months… etc.
I am not sure that the problems are always weapons… maybe there are too strong talents also and/or too strong blessings…
But from I see in my games, DS players are not impacting my gameplay. Smitters / staves psykers etc. impact my gameplay as, when skilled, they kill things faster than me.
I am curious… how do you use chainaxe? and what mark?
When I checked it, it was a little strange the damage chart. You had enemies where you should hit with a light swing, and other where heavy hits are better. In fact, the damage chart is not logical at all. Is this only a mark? have I dreamt (but checked that at least 2 times)?
In my book, the evis is a strong weapon… and in skilled hands, it permits to deal a lot more damages than a DS. However, the two weapons are absolutely not comparable as the evis is the king of horde clearing, while DS is the king at killing single target.
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it is even strong on psyker 
it is fine as weapon, just not fun to play. especially the non existant stagger stun on rev for crushers, unlike chainaxe. missed the point sadly, cause any weapon can be used to solo really. and other weapons doing the same and more practical.
good for the game, more people staying near to the team because not a difference in movement.
ds is even strong without duellist, duellist is a good talent to use with ds.
but as many people said, DS even without all the talents, it’s still overtuned.
MK IV, good for horde clear either with heavies or doing push attack + heavies
good for light attacks single target enemies which stuns lot of elites, specials even if not using special activation. if using the special activation, will stagger perma stunning crusher with either light or heavy, which is very good, something that eviscerator for some reasons can’t do it.