Why making people mad with nerfs? just bring the other “bad” weapons to the same level and adjust the difficulty. make a Tier 6 for even harder conditions.
it´s really bad for people who spent hours and hours and materials for getting their favourite weapon and the blessings etc. as they like it and then making them bad.
now it´s the first time since start in my over 370 hours playtime that i´m really p155ed and honestly lost hope. thats not how you should balance a coop game where it´s just about having fun and killing ugly enemies together. i never had any experience where someone was complaining ingame about op weapons or because of haven´t enough enemies left for them.
it´s things like this that make me not wanna play the game anymore or at least way less.
the freaking lags and the bad netcode is making the gameplay bad, not the flamer or any other weapon. really sad to see how you treat it
It’s a coop game based around teamwork. The flamer and the Power Sword were overtuned. The Power Sword nerfs probably weren’t handled in the best way but that’s it. A PvE game needs balance, and if everything were as powerful as those 2 weapons we would need a level 10 difficulty. If your weapon choice trivializes encounters for the entire group it’s probably a bit too strong.
I think the bigger issue is that FS’s balancing approach is to make everything as bland and generic as possible, just subtle number boosts that do little to nothing noticeable. This was an issue we saw in V2 as characters were progressively stripped of anything remotely unique to make their “power” similar, this is probably why the talent trees we got in Darktide seem so watered down.
Its important to balance games to “some” degree in PvE situations, but not at the expense of fun, I think the powersword nerfs are most irrelevant to the viability of the weapon, but I doubt the flammer is going to see much use, which is pretty lame.
I actually feel like its the opposite imo, will need to test it myself. As for FS balancing approach I can’t really comment on that, but I do feel a big part of the balmd feeling is the lack of unique or game changing blessings.
Gonna be honest, I didn’t see major problems with the flamer in the first place, so many maps make it a very situation option just competes with your melee when stuff does manage to get close, however in the many many shooting gallery situations, a flamer Zealot sort of just hangs out.
Im guessing its prolly a different story on sub t4 or 5, but honestly it seemed fine, if not a bit annoying when it bloomed through my whole FoV. Power Sword nerfs end up being an indirect buff to bolter, and I hate that because bolter stans are already insufferable.
“Leave the outliers alone, just change the whole rest of the game instead.”
No point in having difficulty levels if you tune everything up to power sword/flamer level. The juvenile attitude that balancing the characters vs the enemies in a PvE is not necessary blows my mind.
Difficulty is the life blood of Tide games. In previous entries if the game didn’t kick our ass hard enough we resorted to absurd modded difficulties.
Modded difficulties aren’t an option this time around so it is CRUCIAL that the highest difficulty actually stays hard.
The problem is not the nerf, the problem is the casino mechanics crafting bullcrap.
What is up with Sweats and all or nothing faux arguments?
It was never 3 super duper weapons and 74 garbage weapons so why are pretending this is the case? Powersword and Flamer were perfectly fine and pleasant weapons, a few buffs to the weaker ones would bring them on par, but now instead of expanding the pool of FUN weapons we are expanding the pool of LAME mediocre weapons that require blessings to function properly.
Congratulations on making the game worse with your whining.
whats up with you the false promises to be done and gone and the continuos insults to everyone that disagrees with you, do you never consider other view points than yours might possibly also be valid?
its not a faux argument, lots of people have asked for this including the op in this thread. FS have the option of buffing everysingle other weapon and enemy or nerfing a couple of outliers, your going to end up at the same place just the “buff everything” idea is going to take huge amounts of extra time and probably generate a lot of other unexpected issues , its just soo much better to fix the problems.
I can see that side of it, i spent a lot of resources on my t4 slaughter power cycle PS and it has lost a ton of power, but anyone whose used the weapon had to know it was coming ,
FS could and probably should have a warning list of weapons that are currently being monitored and considered possible balance problems we did get a warning about the flamer but a more visible constant source of info is always nice.
But lets get real here, is this massively nerfed PS still viable? yes , its still top tier it still outperforms just about everything at everything but maybe its not such a problem any more.
i find it comic that people actually find it credible that the only reason this got nerfered this hard is because of a tiny amount of people complaining on the forum and not the metrics they see from everyone.
well as much as i wish FS listened to and acted on my everyword unfortunately your more in danger of crocadile attack than our rightfully pointing out a problem being the sole reason for nerfs, you are that deep in denial
i have been calling for the outright removal of the flamer and its just not happening.
and the game is better now for these improvements so good job us i guess.
Part of the issue is that the nerfs seem more about raising the skill floor than raising the skill ceiling.
Doing that to an existing weapon feels horrible regardless of the numbers, but more so when it’s such a heavy-handed change (50+% reduction, the + is for their sloppy code always allowing for more powered swings per activation).
A power sword with no power cycler feels horrible to play with the need to activate on every hit and the limp audiovisual feedback when it’s unpowered.
Edit: I’m not saying it didn’t need a nerf, just that the way they did the nerf was horrible.
we played hi int damnation today. zelot was using the flamer to cook hordes, but there were some clutches where flamer was not used due to lack of ammo / needed a reload.
we managed to finish the game, few granades here and there and situation was resolved eventually by applying more manual labor, without flamer nerf it would be crusher, rager, ogryn bbq instead.
without PS on my end i could not just activate, go forward slash 2 times, jump back and repeat, i actually had to use few of my last brain cells on how to kill without getting killed (with varying success)
could the nerf been done better? yes, should probably be done before game release.
but it is what it is, and… just enjoy the game with new ruleset
basing on last few games, vet still can manage just it has to use different mindset:
- mele is not your thing, sure you can still manage some pox wakkers or isolated targets but, in overall picture you are not mele class
- your bolter nicely kills hordes, just point the gun in nice bunch of poxies and see the meat feast. reminder can be killed with axe or zelot
- your shred autopistol is similar, instead of PS, shred them, it takes more ammo, but its fun
bonus point is that i always had too much ammo, now when using ranged weapons on horde targets i am closer to red line. i think this fits sharp shooter image better
Can you imagine the hurt this will put on the player base!? Inhumane.
Bro, I paraphrased OP. They suggested that instead of nerfing the small number of weapons that are stronger than all the others, the rest of the game should be adjusted so that these strong weapons are now normal weapons. Both give the same result, but one of these options takes a ludicrous amount of work.
Regardless of what anyone thinks about the state of particular weapons, that approach to balancing is crazy.
Yes it is necessary.
Power creep is a thing that effectively ruins games.
I will try to explain it to you as short as possible.
If someone would be able to kill anything before you in a mission, would you think it is fun?
If someone take you all ammos when you play a veteran, do you think it will make your game more fun?
If everybody use the same weapons, do you think it is fun?
That’s why we need that they balance weapons and that they nerf the ones that are too powerful.
I will be bashed… Flamer needs an other nerf (but ammo reserve should be reverted to what it was before the patch). I continue to think that this weapon needs an hot system like plasma gun.
The PS nerf is great. Maybe 2 swings as a base could be great. But if they go to this, we need a delay between two activations, like 2-3 seconds.
I got over 370 hours in this game and i honestly never saw a flamer spam or a rambo-like vet with an op powersword stealing kills. i can´t understand your complains, that someone is killing anything before you can do it. dude, it´s a coop, it´s about killing things together or changed the sense of coop with this game? maybe i had just incredible luck or you a lot of bad luck with your teammates.
I never felt someone is taking something away from my gaming experience. maybe i´m a bit more chilled after 35 years of gaming and don´t take it so serious. i agree, everybody has a own opinion and thats wonderful 
would be the first game in my gaming history, that fits all players perfect.
Consider these “nerfs” difficulty buffs to Tier 5 missions. There is no need for a new difficulty level atm, just gameplay balance changes which will make Damnation less of a cakewalk with specific weapon/blessing combos. If you feel things are too difficult, there are 4 other difficulty levels, and only one at the top.
btw, now the flamer guys take even more ammo and btw the vet has enough. just aim better
i don´t care what other players use, they should take what they like imo.