its still true that the knife is the best in this situation ‘objectively’
No, chances are you’d kill it faster by swapping to a ranged weapon and using your dueling sword elsewhere. This is the famed opportunity cost I often bring up and you often ignore.
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Yeah sure, nobody disagrees. You have some weird hangup with the word objectively and think it means “universally” when it doesn’t. Nobody thinks or says that the dueling sword is the best weapon universally for every use. It is however the best weapon to have in your melee slot if your goal is killing elites one by one fast. Objectively.
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but that depends on your ranged weapon, which ranged weapon is the best on zealot?
in order to make something objectively true you have to be specific about what is objectively true i agree it is the best at killing elites one by one
True or false:
Dueling sword is going to be the best general use weapon you can put in your melee slot without using the magical power of hindsight where you might have preferred another weapon for another niche use case?
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These two are related opportunity cost wise. Now that you have a weapon that beats all others by a long shot for killing elites one by one, it means killing elites one by one is no longer a factor you need anywhere else in your loadout. That’s why krak grenades are made irrelevant by the dueling sword and why that needs to change. Coincidentally every class has great horde/mixed horde/mixed elite removal options via flamers and shredder nades.
So now you have a situation where you can just run dueling sword and shredder/flamer/inferno staff and deal with everything. Why would you want to use the 1h force sword, which has good mobility, but worse single target, for its better horde clear, if the inferno staff is better at it anyway?
You cited bullet block as a reason but is it really? Inferno staff always gives you bullet immunity via empathetic evasion and you have a shield and a high mobility wep for avoiding gunfire. Again, opportunity cost.
The whole design just makes no sense if one weapon is too good if its weakness is covered that easily. If a thunder hammer is a bit strong as killing bosses, that’s fine, because you can’t cover its weaknesses very well. You can’t make up for a lack of mobility with your ranged weapon on zealot unless you run a laspistol, which in turn can’t kill crushers fast so now your loadout is (objectively) worse at what it can kill and how fast than dueling sword/flamer. TH/laspistol is objectively worse at killing almost all things than dueling sword/flamer. You can argue the value of faster boss killing is subjective, and true, that’s the part that is opinion. If your sole goal is killing bosses fast it’s better. But that’s not really what the balance considerations are primarily about.
consider your team composition and role in the team the dueling sword the the best at taking out elites one by one if your team has that role covered maybe with a delvers pick axe maybe a different weapon will be best on this mission, this is a team game after all
You’re dodging answering the question.
Also pick axe is an ogryn weapon, you can’t swap to it pre mission.
Nobody is arguing to not be a team player.
so you never consider your team before a mission or play with friend?
I am not humoring this attempt to dodge responding.
EDIT:
Oh right, I even meant to say: @Murderer On top of that, it’s not even like the dueling sword is poor at dealing with hordes, just that you can completely offset it only being “okay” at it by having a horde clear weapon/grenade.
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the knife is objectively the best melee weapon because its ability to quickly kill elites and its mobility to help kite the enemies.
just kidding that’s subjective
I tried man, you’re literally just arguing to argue at this point, you even admitted you consider it the best.
Genuinely, you’re not worth my time, you’re not even a fun debater, you’re just parroting the same things you’ve said.
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the horde killing on the dueling sword is definitely good and the weapon would suffer greatly without its horde clearing ability
if they nerfed the horde killing or elite killing on the dueling sword everyone would just switch to knife and the variety would get worse
So never balance anything because there’s always ultimately a meta choice. (And I don’t even agree everyone would run knife)
Got it. Never heard that argument before.
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Coincidentally if you eat you just get hungry again so what’s the point
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they both should be worse than chain and power weapons, its just common sense
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Yeah I don’t really understand why a knife should have top tier crusher kill speeds either. A lot of the time blessings are to blame for covering weaknesses too well. Weapons do need some pronounced weaknesses which then allows other weapons to shine.
As I said, without changing a single thing about krak grenades, nerfing the dueling sword would make them more worth picking. These things don’t exist in a vacuum
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