no
the ds4 specifically, is THE best weapon in the game bar none. there is no better weapon, especially in the hands of a zealot who stacks melee damage buffs faster than you can blink
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I think you just don’t really comprehend anything directed at you. You can in fact objectively have a best loadout that performs the best at everything. The dueling sword is part of that loadout. This is fact. It’s measurable.
That’s why comparing the dueling sword to other weapons brings into question opportunity cost via the rest of the loadout, a concept that at this point I’m certain you don’t understand and is black magic to you. I tried bringing this up earlier but you ignored it.
Dueling sword isn’t the best at blocking ranged attacks!
Checkmate, atheists. Slab shield confirmed best weapon.
Or something.
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the argument is simple there is no objectively best weapon because there are situations and arguments far all weapons to be better. as far as elite killing speed is concerned probably the dueling sword is best or maybe a flamethrower/staff
the knife is able to quickly kill elites with the added benefit of mobility which could makes it better<-- subjective
So is this objective or subjective?
subjective
So there is no way to objectively measure elite killing speed?
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in terms of melee weapons, there is an objective best weapon and it is the dueling sword mk 4
in terms of ranged weapons, it is either the purge staff (inferno now) or the trauma staff (idk what the new name is)
ds4 has the same mobility as the knife, it’s just different tech
the ds5 has MORE mobility than the knife as it has a defense stat
ds4 can one shot most elites, and it can 2 shot crushers as a grey weapon on damnation
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the game has too many variables for any one truth like the types of elites and mission modifiers like the scab melee mission makes the dueling sword good because of the extra armored enemies but in a shock troop gauntlet might make the relic blade more useful so you can cleave into specials.
I understand what you’re trying to argue, I really do get it.
Obviously dueling sword doesn’t negate other benefits such as the aforementioned slab shield’s ability to block ranged attacks. The issue with dueling sword in particular is that it’s so strong in so many fields that things like that are effectively irrelevant in normal gameplay. (AKA not speedrunning) Knife’s mobility is a very small benefit that is almost immediately offset by the fact that you’ll be killing faster with the dueling sword. Generally the only time that additional mobility might make a tiny difference is at the very, very start of an engagement when you need to reach something to start the ball rolling on sweeping through a pack (AKA proccing buffs and regenning toughness) of enemies. Once you’re actually engaged that mobility is very rarely relevant, and any increased time saved is generally offset by the dueling sword’s faster kill speed.
Not to mention sheer ease of use, the dueling sword is practically idiot proof.
Again: There are more niche cases you can argue but in terms of overall power levels the dueling sword is almost always going to excel in comparison to anything else. This is the issue with trying to say it’s subjective. No single scenario is ever going to only favor one niche, so when something excels at most niches along with the most important ones (AKA killing things) then it’s effectively the best weapon overall.
/ramble
I’m a stubborn little goober who almost always prefers off meta things but that doesn’t equal the same as saying they’re objectively equivalent to meta options.
i think the dueling sword is the best but that will never be objective i love two poking crushers as a veteran. the game just has too many variables for there to be one truth.
but at the same time the knife is used in solo havoc 40 runs always so would that make it the best?
Dueling sword can one shot crushers even as Veteran.
I’m genuinely not sure what you’re debating at this point then.
Again: Yes, there might be niche cases where something else does something better or that it can’t do. That does not change that you’re picking the best option for essentially every scenario on loadout choice when picking the dueling sword. The game does not vary enough from modifiers to change that the dueling sword is always going to outperform in every single modifier as it stands compared to other options.
Speed runs are not relevant.
Okay. You’re wrong though. For example, can we do the math between:
- Breakpoints
- Attack frames
Now we can say, objectively and factually, which weapon has the highest single target elite killing speed. For example a mauler. Dueling swords have certain attack frames and oneshot them with the right setup. So you have a certain rate of which it’s capable of killing maulers.
Now you’ll say “but target density and cleave and aoe is a factor”. This is true, but this is a factor we can measure and calculate too. We can measure at which point a flamer kills maulers faster than a dueling sword. Flamers and shredder nades notably have infinite cleave. It’s a pretty simple calculation. You can objectively, and measurably make the statement, without me knowing the number right now, that
- The dueling sword kills maulers the fastest, unless you can flamer/shredder X of them at the same time
This is all objective. I have at no point said anything subjective.
What you’re trying to say is that performance varies because situations vary. But that doesn’t mean it’s not measurable: We know the dueling sword is the fastest at killing anything below X maulers, and we know the flamer/shredder grenade is the fastest at killing a theoretically unlimited amount of maulers. Coincidentally, we can use both.
As a result? We can say that we have a weapon that is the best at single target killing maulers and crushers (this is true of the dueling sword, verifiable fact) or that we have a weapon that is the fastest at killing up to an infinite amount of enemies and elites via cleave (this is true of the flamer/shredder grenade, verifiable fact).
None of what I said is subjective. What is subjective is to what extent it’s an issue. I think the dueling sword removing maulers and crushers this quick trivializes them. I also think its existence kills the concept of opportunity cost in Darktide coupled with easy horde clear options elsewhere. Given these objective elite killing speeds, you’re almost always best off using the dueling sword to stab them and swapping to your ranged/grenade for mass, removing other options from the table unless you intentionally selfnerf. This is subjective, but I’ve made my arguments.
PS: It is theoretically objectively measurable but you’d have to test out every single elite spawn combination in the game and test the numbers. I’m not gonna do that though.
why are they not relevant?
the knife is able to quickly kill elites, but when is the last time you saw anybody kill anything with it
from my experience every time i see anybody with a knife they are doing all their funny moves but barely appear in the kill feed
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Because they’re effectively relying on breaking the game’s director and abusing the spawn cap to prevent normal gameplay.
I’ve done plenty of true solo runs in these sorts of games but I still very much make it clear when giving advice to people that these are not normal nor how the game is actively played.
It’s essentially arguing about a completely different game.
you haven’t played with good players than because good players shred with the knife
Because they kill like 8 enemies per run and break the spawns
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