I’m on the forum to defend a game I love. And I wish it weren’t possible to finish a mission with your hands behind your back, blindfolded, and while presenting a thesis at the same time.
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These forums have been under siege since June. You saw the review bomb. It was a battleground in here.
You are not seeing the community at its happiest.
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Thats fair.
Im asking an honest question, because i do not see what some are saying. From my point of view, the class we talk about is overall overtuned, mind you most of his keystones dont work., yet the dog is beeing blamed… I have said this before, when it was bugged i did agree but now i dont.
The evidence so to speak, is one run taking almost twice aslong with low overall damage for the time spend, and the word of some players that the dog is opp. ( in the posted video we can even see in the first encounter the dog not applying bleed in an AOE, only to the primary target)
I have asked a number of times why it is opp, all my runs without dog i can do faster with more dps, and a higher win rate in havoc (30) the only hurdle without dog is having to deal with more gunners from my experience and not having a stun on bosses.
You guys are missing a point here. They made this Arbite and balance around High Havocs (35+), not Auric. It’s the same for the Ogryn reworks. This is I think how FS will be doing for all the new classes that will come out later next year or whenever.
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Don’t worry, the dog is not being singled out as the only overtuned thing on the arbitrator.
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Both are OP in high havoc.
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Yeah, that’s not good, that’s the point we are making in return.
Auric is supposed to be the ‘casual top end’, where the majority of the player base feels challenged, while use ‘sweat lords’ play high havoc and get our butts pounded and feel great about surpassing a true challenge. This was true in the game for one to two seasons (season one was balls to the wall hard and felt great, season two I didn’t touch but still seemed really hard even with Ogryn existing because Ogryns aren’t FAST so they can’t just free win the game without help), now with Arbite, Auric is forced into a cake walk without even thinking (because even just one Arbite on the team makes the game feel like it has half the amount of enemies it needs to), and you can push into high havoc for free with nearly any arbite build and you’ll win with little difficulty (one can see my ‘long rank’ about such below if one wants further proof on the matter. No golden toughness, no Veteran with Survivalist, true survivor on Havoc 38 with little to no threat what so ever)
This should not be the case. AURIC is where the game should be designed around, and we’ve been saying it on the forums ever since Havoc came out. Havoc was created because Auric was ‘too easy’ for the high end of the player base, now guess what? They are balancing around Havoc because reasons?!? and now it’s strictly to easy just in general, and every difficulty before Heresy might as well be deleted. The game no longer rewards skill expression but it used too, and the vast community outcry is because ‘we finally had our place, and now you’ve taken it away and for what?’
Havoc is an OPTIONAL side game mode for a reason, it’s supposed to be where the best of the best sweat it out, and everyone else grinds their hardest for rank 25 for all the armor and leaves. Now it’s just Auric, and Auric is Heresy. This is not good, but there’s still time to ‘turn this ship around’. And we are all yelling about it hoping it does get turned around, before it all gets cemented and now:
That happens.
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I don’t spend particularly much time trying to psychoanalyze the forum users and their various viewpoints. But if people look at this video and play style and come to the conclusion that this Somehow fine (or gasp maybe even not strong enough!?) I don’t know what to say other than to feel a sense of profound disappointment.
Auric, as the highest non-special mode difficulty, should be challenging IMHO. I don’t want to have a cakewalk going through it. The 'Tide games have been a favorite of mine specially because of the skill that is often involved in combining all of the game’s various mechanics.
The Arbiter, and to a lesser extent other OP stuff we all rant about, results in aspects of the whole game being trivialized. If you can go through an entire level and not have to dodge, sprint, shoot, or make melee attacks then something is seriously, seriously wrong. And anyone that feels like this is okay just has a fundamentally different vision for what this game should be from what it has historically been, and from what I’d like to get out it.
Watching this video made me feel bad. At first, I was like “how” is this possible. And then I was like, “why” is this possible and who thought this was a good idea?
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Two Man, Auric, DOG ONLY, NO DODGING AND SPRINTING
What used to be the pinnacle of difficulty, made ‘casual but still pretty difficult and fun’ after the initial talent tree update, reduced to:
No shooting, no meleeing, no playing the game in any way, not even dodging attacks. Just turtling, waiting for your dog, doing objective, and leaving, and still beating the game in the same clear time with TWO PLAYERS as I sometimes took in some bad player/near solo carry four player Auric games on basic missions just a few months ago (around 40-45 minutes) while having to actually play the game, but this one on the literal hardest/most spawn heavy map in the game as of current and still the game is fully ignored.
If you don’t see a problem here, then I’m sorry but I think there’s just no hope at this point in making you understand. Literal entire swaths of the game are being functionally ignored, where before you had to engage with each and every one of them to actually succeed in the video game. This is not good, and is actively harming the game and the player base mentality toward it. Go play Psyker without an Inferno staff for like 5 seconds and tell me with a straight face that class, designed around maximum skill expression and capability only if you yourself is good, continues to have a place while the arbite next to them is holding W and being equally as effective as them.
One use to have pride in being able to carry a game, now it’s just expected/everyone does it.
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To address this point as well (though it slightly was already). The point isn’t ‘ohh this is the most effective thing’, the point is ‘you can fundamentally ignore what used to be key tenants of the games design, and that’s actively harmful to the game/just bad design overall’.
The game even just before this update even required relatively careful management of dodges, stamina, hitting and pushing enemies when needed, cleaving through swaths of them to make paths, and shooting down high priority targets. required, being the key word here.
Now with the Arbite, it isn’t. You win, you will win. Hold up block, point dog at things, you win. You don’t even need to shoot or dodge, and that is a problem. Fundamental game systems are allowed to be completely ignored, and while it isn’t ‘optimal’, the point here is that ‘there’s a reason every game now is 20-25 minutes’, if you’re also playing it, you just win that much harder.
Also important to note, this is with 2 players. If you add 2 more with 2 more dogs? I bet you get that clear time down to 30-35 minutes easy, with the extended time literally just being because you’re walking not running.
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Yeah and balancing for havoc ruins the rest of the game
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Yes because auric is still as difficult as it was 
If you were honest you would admit this Auric HTSG is not as difficult as a month ago, secondly, 2 good players took 45, and your argument is 4 bad players would have taken just along with a different class. That is the opposite of your point…
Good thing you didnt bother to qoute my entire response:
The sole reason they even “can” do this is because the class overall is overtuned. How do you think they stayed alive while doing nothing and still taking shots?
i’m sorry but Ogryn having infinite cleave, Zealot beeing invis and same for psycker, dont even start on gold or +100 nades, but no, it is the dog beeing overpowerd.
Again, Arbites is overall overtuned, none of this would be possible if his kit wasnt overtuned. How do you think he can tank the entire game ( he did dodge/block/Push btw )
I tried, you clearly can’t/choose not to read (despite me doing so, I simply quoted the ‘key point’ to respond to) and simply want to fan the flames because you fundamentally believe what the game is now is something it should be, when it wasn’t that for 3+ years, people played it because it wasn’t that, and now it’s being trivialized and you’re happy about it.
But, to do one over on you before I banish thee:
I see hypocrisy in your trolling, if you’re going to pretend like my points don’t have a thru line without reading them, I would have expected you to at least try and keep your own points cohesive as well. And for the record, no, Auric is not actually easier anymore, they largely fixed that. Arbite is making them easier, if you clicked into my book of grudges reply you’ll see a screenshot from an Auric Gloriana that had 3k enemies in it. Auric wasn’t made easier, Arbite made Auric easier.
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Well apolegis, i do agree the game should return to how the game was balanced back then if you are talking about density, player buffs etc. i did not get that point from your earlier message.
I’m not trying to be. I did see it, but in my games the scoreboard shows faster games, less disablers etc from multiple games. I can only judge auric from what data i have overall. I do agree the changes to Ogryn and the release of the new class made it easier but im seeing an overall decrease in difficulty in auric even with the other classes.
I dont see how i come over as hypocrit, im not trying to be and read my comments back. English isnt my native tongue so all i can say is im not trying to be and apolegise.
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You’d have wiped in the first 5 minutes if shock maul+shield wasn’t a broken weapon, with broken block talents/nodes, but you only talk about the dog that seems disingenuous ?
You finished a 25 min mission in 50 minutes, wowie zowie
Brasil?
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Cool this is kinda what I was looking for. If the argument was “This is busted” in the same way something like the Dueling Sword can be, I’m not sure I got that from the video. If the argument is instead “the game shouldn’t be able to be played like this”, that’s probably fair.
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I implore to you walk into this same mission with an Ogryn holding the block button only with his shield and tell me how you completed the mission in 50 minutes, much less in general (they are functionally the same, but you’ll see class wise one key difference…).
Also worth reading like, literally anything else in this thread/the comment directly above this one with my quote from Molonious.
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it is very clear that you are arguing in bad faith. you are being intentionally obtuse, while refusing to address counter-arguments in context.
If you can not understand at this point one must conclude that you are either ignorant of the language being used, ignorant of the intended game mechanics, or arguing in bad faith.
the offered evidence very clearly demonstrates the issue
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The problem is that the dog can completely replace someone’s main weapon and still do acceptable DPS. I’ve had HiShock games with 3 randoms and no restrictions on dodging and sprinting that lasted longer than that game
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