Devpost: Chaos Wastes & More

Though the conditions of the pilgrimage mean the Ubersreik Five must venture north with little more than makeshift weapons and their own innate skills, they will not want for weapons. The landscape is dotted with altars, in which can be found mighty armaments and powerful boons employed by those who have trod the paths before.

Ok, so, we are starting from scratch just like we did in Weaves? I was sad when I saw that there won’t be any Daemons in the Chaos Wastes. But now I’m just completely uninterested for this whole DLC. And yes, I’m aware that DLC is free, I’m just perplexed that this is something that majority of players want/like :dizzy_face:

How come that game longevity formula has to be “Reset all the weapons and skills you have and grind it up again”?

I would’ve gladly payed for new Dwarf themed maps for instance, but I guess it was much faster and easier for FS just to use the existing weaves assets to create CW.

Chaos Wastes has zero grind. You can enjoy it to the fullest from the beginning if you have a level 35 character. Your expeditions will also start with the talents you have chosen in the Keep.

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What @Adelion said. This isn’t a case of “level up your gear again” but instead in this gamemode you start a run with “white” weapons, and during the run you get loads of (temporary) upgrades, ending a run with “red” weapons (that seem to have crazy overpowered traits as well). When the run ends you don’t keep the weapons, and you start the next run with “white” weapons again. There seems to be absolutely zero grind with this gamemode, and you seem to be able to enjoy it to the fullest even if you don’t have any gear whatsoever yet.

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Does CW even recycle anything from weaves?

So still random upgrades right? Like the base adventure mode?

On what are you refering with the question? Chaos Wastes mode? Yea, the upgrades are mostly random with minor chances of influence for the build.

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Yeah that’s what I meant, thanks. Do we also have a 50% chance to implode or have negative damage with every light attack made?

Not sure if it helps but it might answer some of your questions:

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Thanks for the work on this. It’s very helpful for getting the full picture.

Onto the details – Some of these are so broken. There’s a Swift Slaying+ in there. 50% more headshot damage? Is that raw damage or the headshot bonus? If its raw, that’s Assassin+. Every block counts as a parry? Next up damage immunity. Oh wait that’s actually there? How do you make the game difficult at that point? By vomiting enemies at the player in cpu lag fests? The worst part is that every block counting as a parry is useless because you rarely die to getting guard-broken in this game once you know what you’re doing. This talent will highlight this.

Taking damage.
Give you crits.
For 3 seconds.

I’m going to assume Fatshark is going to balance these. I can’t wait for all the players that do this mode and get the impression that they’re good at the game because of it. Will be like Twitch mode all over again.

At least this mode will keep those players contained, where they belong.

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Why are your recent posts filled with such vitriol?

People can also just have fun with something different instead of it being an e-peen contest

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It’s not vitriol, just an observation. It really doesn’t effect me, so I’m fine with it. From my other post:

Sounds more like you’re offended.

From what I heard these are already the “balanced” talents. There may be further changes, don’t know. What you have to consider is that all upgrades have some randomness involved. So yea, there are absurdly strong boons in the Chaos Wastes but there is zero guarantee that you get them. Also, some boni sound nice but since you start with a lower power level a 50 % more headshot boon might only bring you to the same level as Adventure Mode.

The idea is: “Be strong if luck is with you.” “Be flexible if not.” Even with all these boons the game didn’t really feel easier than adventure mode. Also didn’t feel like it was more luck dependent. You can work with everything but you need to be flexible. Also don’t forget the curses as well as the map modifier which make the game harder.

On the bright side there are no spam fests like two or three monsters at the same time or dropping 6+ disablers like you get frequently in the Weaves. Overall the balance is in an okay spot with some brutal spikes (mostly arenas).

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I’d just rather them having worked on making choosing between properties a compelling, hard choice in its own right instead of arbitrary randomness, like by making it so that I can actually run out of ammo if I don’t invest in it through a combination of talents and properties, by having my block feel inadequate when surrounded if I don’t take push/block angle, by my crits feeling mediocre without Crit Power, by my ult feeling like it really does take a little too long to charge without cooldown reduction, like I get caught too easily without that extra 5% movement speed.
I’m just disappointed this is where the effort went.

Didn’t need it explained, didn’t ask. I’ve played Darkest Dungeon enough to get the concept. It’s not for me and isn’t a criticism I have.

I’ll admit, that does sound good.

Yeah, a lot of this stuff seems totally out of line, but honestly it does sound kind of fun. Maybe the chance to roll it is just very small so it’s a rare power spike? Or the game throws horrible curses at you to compensate? Really curious how this plays out.

Also, if this gamemode is more focussed on bringing random crazy gameplay instead of being focused on being super tryhard, I’d be totally okay with that. When you want to tryhard against unfair odds there’s always weaves.

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Same. I’m hoping the challenges meet the power we get, but not in a bullet spongy way, so we still get the feeling of progressing.

That’s fair. Not every game mode has to be an extreme pressure experience where the smallest error ends the entire run.

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Well I get where this is coming from. Personally I really don’t want to critique the mode too harshly at this point without having played it at least a couple of games. So in my case I’m going to save all of that for the patch day.
At the very least the weapon trait randomness does sound irritating enough in the long run when you consider 90 % of them to be absolute duds and need of a rework.

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It might be a good chance to cure the community from its Swift Slaying addiction (and then finally tone it down in terms of effect).

However, there are so many crazy boons that weapon traits are really not that important at all.

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That might be true but for me its not about having access to swiftslaying 24/7.
Its just when I get a new weapon upgrade its hard to get excited over stuff like heroic intervention or inspirational shot. I either hit that 1-2 choices that make me feel better or get basically nothing.

If all of the traits were at least serviceable or there were some game mode exclusives (mby there is?) then I would not care and its just part of the roque-lite randomness.
Just a missed opportunity in my mind to also do complete trait rework while at it.

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Urgh, I haven’t paid much attention to that. There might be new weapon traits. Other than that weapon traits are just like weaker talents. So they are more or less there in the form of boons. So having Heroic Intervention is just like rolling a weak boon. It is not what makes a difference here.

Concerning a trait rework it would have to be done independent from Chaos Wastes as the mode is balanced differently. Ideas for trait (and properties) reworks are out there. However, I think they are partially held back by the need of an accompanying crafting re-work. Because if you delete, add and change this stuff, it HAS TO effect all existing weapons and other equipment. And I am pretty sure the community would … bemoan that.

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Maybe, but I think making other options more compelling, perhaps by making them more relevant through gameplay (e.g. by making stagger feel inadequate without Opportunist, so not taking it means choosing dps over vital safety, a real and difficult choice you might flip between) is better. If it was a question of, ‘I need this stagger otherwise I can’t face hordes head-on without it because basic enemies will retaliate too quickly even with higher attack speeds’ or ‘I need this dps otherwise enemies build-up too much’ means players end up having to contextually pick the one that will aid them, using observations they’ve made on the issues they’ve observed in their team (most teams stick together for more than a single quickplay match) i.e. we have enough damage, need more control etc. Wouldn’t have to be a bunch of absolutes of course and this just an example, but more so along the lines of going for the optimal dps route requiring very high levels of animation reading, micro and proper commitment to it build-wise so Swift Slaying isn’t passively extremely useful for any build, and so a skilled player has a reason to bring Opportunist for the sake of their team rather than themselves. Like if with Swift Slaying you still had to parry a bit because of the sheer number of attacks coming from the horde but your dps is higher, but with Opportunist you maintain a higher dps uptime.

But the fact is you don’t really need any trait in this game, so of course nearly everyone is going to pick the one that simply makes the run faster. This is true without Swift Slaying being in the picture. You don’t need Parry because we already have stamina, you don’t need RS because ultimates already have generously low cooldowns and dealing and taking damage gives so much ult cooldown, you don’t need Opportunist because enemies have a low attack frequency and the majority of enemies already get interrupted by virtually every player action.

Besides, people are only addicted to Swift Slaying because it’s straightforward and free of bugs. Who wants to go figure out hundreds of different stagger breakpoints in a game that makes that difficult, especially when they’re carefully researched stagger breakpoints can get overwritten by other sources of stagger anyway? Most don’t even know if Crit Power is good on their weapons (it’s practically never good unfortunately except on very niche builds or on BH). It’s also because everyone says to use SS.

It would be interesting to see a WHC facetank and Riposte two bosses at the same time though. Or silly. Maybe cool?

Yeah. I’m fine with getting something like Opportunist because it has an impact, unless it’s on something like Dual Daggers which is a horrible pairing. But if I get Parry on a shield weapon that’s such overkill it’s like not having a trait at all.

Not if it’s done with a great deal of tact, slowly, carefully and with proper adjustments so players feel like there are interesting alternatives as a result, with the overall peak capabilities of players staying unaffected but with the addition of smart complexities and fair difficulty. Difficult, demanding, something that isn’t mine or your job.

Edit 1: @Adelion Quick question, do you happen to know if Caxuatn’s Frenzy works with friendly fire?

Edit 2: I do appreciate the amount of creativity Fatshark has put into the ideas here. Some of them are really cool. Like Kurnous’ Precision, which while it sounds overpowered to me due to my limited knowledge, is a cool skill-based tradeoff that I really like. Mork’s (or possibly Gork’s) Onslaught is going to be absurdist and funny with Slayer. Lileath’s Grace would be pretty awesome for Rapier, Dual Axes or any of the lower cleave weapons. Djaf’s Reaping is another great looking one.