Defeating Monstrosities - Reward

[Nish]

Who hurt you?

[Khorne_Dawg]

No one. I’m simply pointing out that your idea while awesome on paper would lead to absolutely disastrous results in practice. I’m completely against rewarding players for killing Daemonhosts due to reasons I’ve listed in two separate posts on this thread.

[Ralendil]

@Khorne_Dawg

Who in the Emperor’s name wants to both potentially lose a teammate and then gain a bunch of passive Corruption just for a few extra Dockets?

who said few extra bucket? He said, the reward for grims should be better. Something I fully agree with.
Rewarding taking risk, that’s a good idea.

@Khorne_Dawg

The current Grimoire system is somehow better in practice because at least it won’t risk killing a teammate.

The current grimoire system is a pure failure cause nobody wants to take the risk
A system not used is a failure in pratice.

[Khorne_Dawg]

@Ralendil

who said few extra bucket?

Are you not given extra rewards for Grims?

@Ralendil

The current grimoire system is a pure failure cause nobody wants to take the risk
A system not used is a failure in pratice.

This suggested rework would cause greedy pubs to choke on their own ambition constantly and thus massively ruin pub games when any mention of extra rewards is involved. Daemonhosts are a punishment for getting sloppy and not paying enough attention, not a prize.

[Nish]

I just asked because your reply was an overreaction to put it lightly.

I think that some kind of risk-reward inside the game is cool. Be it loot rats, demonhosts dropping grims, or something like a patrol carrying a casket full of dockets.

I think putting grims on demonhost on grim maps would make it instantly more interesting to play.

@Khorne_Dawg

This suggested rework would cause greedy pubs to choke on their own ambition constantly

Good. They’ll learn from it.

[Khorne_Dawg]

@Nish

I just asked because your reply was an overreaction to put it lightly.

It was simply a harsh expression of my position on the issue and an example.

@Nish

Good. They’ll learn from it.

Very optimistic, but the reality is that nature will always provide you with better idiots to subvert your expectations.

[Ralendil]

@Khorne_Dawg

Are you not given extra rewards for Grims?

yes… it increases the “quality” of the emperor’s reward.
As said, the emperor’s reward is a pure garbage weapon, even with 2 grimoires.

That’s why I really think the reward should be better and monsters should play a better role in it and grimoires also.

An increased chance to get something better on paper, but if, no matter what you do, you always get unusable items, this is not a “true” reward. This is just one more weapon that I will have to sell / destroy / sacrifice

@Khorne_Dawg

This suggested rework would cause greedy pubs to choke on their own ambition constantly and thus massively ruin pub games when any mention of extra rewards is involved. Daemonhosts are a punishment for getting sloppy and not paying enough attention, not a prize.

Only one will die in the try.
You underestimate players. With a shield ogryn this can be done easily, and, this, everybody knows it. But with a thunderhammer zealot and someone else that aggro the DH, this can also be done easily. And I am sure that, if there was a TRUE reward for carrying a grimoire, players would find a lot of ways to kill a DH.

[Khorne_Dawg]

@Ralendil

yes… it increases the “quality” of the emperor’s reward.

I always thought it was for Dockets? Strange, but I concede since I’ve never taken the time to do the maths. Still… the actual reward is even less worth it because of the Itemisation rework.

@Ralendil

You underestimate players. With a shield ogryn thgis can be done easily, and, this, everybody knows it. But with a thunderhammer zealot and someone else that aggro the DH, this can also be done easily. And I am sure that, if there was a TRUE reward for carrying a grimoire, players would find a lot of ways to kill a DH.

Yes, everyone totally uses those two specific weapons

Darktide’s got good players, but it’s also got some lobotomites and I don’t wanna play anything above regular Damnation with said lobotomites if they’re being told “Daemonhosts will give you better weapons/free money now!”

The game doesn’t tell you when Daemonhosts will spawn in a mission either, so how will players who don’t use those weapons regularly actually know when to equip them?

[Ralendil]

@Khorne_Dawg

I always thought it was for Dockets? Strange, but I concede since I’ve never taken the time to do the maths. Still… the actual reward is even less worth it because of the Itemisation rework.

Here the devblog

@FatsharkCatfish

The Emperor’s Gift, which was occasionally received upon successful mission completion, will now be granted upon every mission completion without any limit by time, as was previously the case. In addition, the Emperor’s Gift will be influenced by several factors: The difficulty of the chosen mission and the conditions and side missions completed. Both factors will improve the chances of receiving an item with higher potential.

For me, collecting grimoire, therefor completing a side mission, increases the quality of the reward.
But as this quality is garbage… this does not matter
So, they could really increase it.

@Khorne_Dawg

The game doesn’t tell you when Daemonhosts will spawn in a mission either, so how will players who don’t use those weapons regularly actually know when to equip them?

I don’t think I have seen one mission without any demon host.

[Khorne_Dawg]

@Ralendil

@Khorne_Dawg

The game doesn’t tell you when Daemonhosts will spawn in a mission either, so how will players who don’t use those weapons regularly actually know when to equip them?

I don’t think I have seen one mission without any demon host.

Completely fair, since it’s random every player will have a different experience with Daemonhosts. I’d say it’s around 50/50 for me give or take.

[Amelia]

not sure what you mean by this can’t be justified in any form.
you don’t like the idea of having a penance to kill monstrosities for a portrait frame?
or the tiny chance to bosses could drop medikit or alternatively an ammo crate.
a chance that can either happen or not, just like when you open a chest.

I think it would help for the special condition where bosses can spawn more frequently in maelstorm.

about crafting materials, while you say there are enough, i think honestly it would give a good start for new players etc.

and also not all players in maelstorm auric damnation collect materials, maybe players would like a new way to collect materials while playing instead of looting.

[Khorne_Dawg]

@Amelia

having a penance to kill monstrosities for a portrait frame

We need some concepts! I really like this idea. Hel, more Penances in general would go a long way in helping me with my 4,500 Penance Points grind. I’m at around 3,300 right now.

[brosgw]

If we wanted VT equivalents it would be rewards that up the quality of the emperors gift… which, sure.

I think cold hard cash of just some ordos as a bounty works.

A penance for killing monsters seems fine.

AS LONG AS IT DOESN’T APPLY TO DAEMON HOSTS. They’re designed to be avoided. Don’t need excuses for trolls and griefers to throw a game. We ain’t the Daemon hunters. This isn’t chaos gate. Leave that job for the other department.

[Ralendil]

@Amelia

or the tiny chance to bosses could drop medikit or alternatively an ammo crate.

Hmm… there are already enough medikits and ammo crate. The problem is that players don’t bind a key to open the chests (irony here).

@Amelia

you don’t like the idea of having a penance to kill monstrosities for a portrait frame?

I don’t care of penances cause they made them private. Since then, I don’t even try to complete them as I know I will be blocked at one time.
Btw, not sure several are still private. If yes, then the game should mention it (cause it is not actually).
Also, I use the default portrait frame. This is my preferred.

@Amelia

and also not all players in maelstorm auric damnation collect materials, maybe players would like a new way to collect materials while playing instead of looting.

They choose to. I did an auric maelstrom yesterday and we have collected close to everything.
I would like to understand… a lot of players tell me that it does not matter to loot and now you tell me that it would be great to have something cause… you don’t loot??
Choose. Is it not important, then it does not matter. If it is important, then I would suggest players to learn to open chests or even to loot what they have in front of them.

[Wahid]

I am not sure about rewarding players for killing Daemonhosts.

There are numerous ways to cheese them (more than T-Hammer), so any reward for killing them would have to take this into account.

Another issue I have with Daemonhosts killing rewarding players is that it makes not fighting them appear less desirable. Basically, if you give Daemonhosts a bounty reward, you will be constantly arguing with your own squad about whether or not you want to fight them.

Killing them if they drop rewards will practically be required.

Eliminating Daemonhosts is currently a viable strategy in certain situations, assuming you have the right team loadouts.

Especially in chokepoints, so you do not have to deal with massive mixed hordes consisting of several heavyweights and risk waking up the Daemonhost while dodging.

I’d rather Fatshark buff Emperor’s Gift, and fighting avoidable monstrosities isn’t something I’m interested in because I prefer to finish matches quickly; I’m not a speedrunner, but I don’t want to waste time fighting things I can skip.

[mesutozer]

It is a very fair request. i also miss this little creatures.

[Jonboy]

You could just make it a contract task rewarded by Melk?

Oh, wait…

[Scipo0419]

@Ralendil

You underestimate players. With a shield ogryn this can be done easily, and, this, everybody knows it. But with a thunderhammer zealot and someone else that aggro the DH, this can also be done easily. And I am sure that, if there was a TRUE reward for carrying a grimoire, players would find a lot of ways to kill a DH.

You’re missing the point. Like Witches from L4D, Daemonhosts are “environmental hazards” not “enemies”.

Rewarding a player for effectively stepping on a landmine is counter intuitive to the design intent. Do you get a reward for standing in fire? Of course not, even if it’s holy fire, because fire is a hazard that you’re meant to avoid. Sure you CAN run through it for a shorter path, but you’re taking that risk of unnecessary damage. Sure you CAN fight the Daemonhost for a shorter path, but you’re taking that risk of unnecessary damage.

[Hextechnician]

I appreciate the point you are making. Might want a different metaphor though as you technically DO get rewarded for standing in a Zealot’s flame grenade. Me personally, I would classify that as a kind of holy fire.

[brosgw]

@mesutozer

It is a very fair request. i also miss this little creatures.

Nurglings would seem the most equivalent…