Dec 21, 2022

What do you expect people to do? That they praise FatShark to the skies for what they have published? That was a company decision (both timing and content), not a user decision. People can only start a “shitstorm” if someone provides the necessary sh!t for it…
And yes, some people will continue to act exactly as you described, for good reason, but the foundation for that was laid by FatShark themselves. It’s not the end of the world for the users, they just feel screwed or betrayed for a while and eventually move on if nothing changes. Be glad that people are still complaining, at least it shows that they haven’t completely given up on the game. The only one for whom maybe a small world is collapsing is FatShark, in terms of their reputation and maybe financially…

I think that FatShark should perhaps switch to mute for the time being, but then also honestly and openly communicate this beforehand and not stall the people for weeks to come. That will also not suit many people but at least then everyone knows where we are at.

Back from the flip side, Dark Tide sold 10 million plus units.

The question is what the financing plan of the game looks like. And whether it will work with a rapidly dwindling number of players and thus fewer potential buyers of in-game cosmetics. And to what extent the image damage of this release will have an impact in the future. Let’s just hope that the further development of the game is still worthwhile.

Considered a success. Fat Shark made $500 million + on sales not counting cosmetics.

Whoops. Read a bad source. actually 1.8 million. Ahhh…i give up.

They’ve had 2 previous games where they abandoned development in 2 years, and shut down servers a year after. Somehow I have a feeling that will be the case with Darktide too, considering that mostly negative Steam reviews are very damning.

1 Like

Noone says that. There is a bunch of valid criticism about the game or how some things got handled.

If anything then i expect the ppl to take a deep breath and start to think what all the flame costs. It puts a big cotter between us and the devs, meanwhile decreasing the longevity of a game all want to put dozens of hours into.

And it really doesn´t matter if “FS started” this or not. We had the same back in the days at Vermintide where poeple complained about everything and still do. The poeple expect to be catered by any means and i´ve never seen this in any other game-community. The love / hate relationship is real, it´s hilarious.

At some point poeple should maybe acknowledge, that this game is just not made for them in general. Or just because you got hyped and gave feedback since beta, doesn´t mean that your vision of the game meets the ones of the devs, nor that you´re some hero that should be catered because you “helped them” to improve a beta.

They act like it´s seriously… meanwhile it´s just a videogame.

And tbh… everyone should asked themselves. “Would i care if i get shitstormed all day long?” or “Should i continue to care when i already made changes my consumers are unwillig to see?”

I guess the answer is obvious. I´m sure the motivation at FS is like 1% to actually stand up in the morning.

EDIT: And being like “They deserve it…”, like seriously… imagine what you deserve if you make a mistake in RL, work, whatever… or do something others just dislike.
We still talk about a game.

1 Like

You know, I think you’re personalizing the issue a little too much. Your arguments are completely ok, I’m also always in favor of respectful interpersonal interaction (even when giving feedback). But people here criticize a company and its product. When it comes to attacks on individuals (like Hedge for example) I also find that completely unacceptable, even if he may have put himself in the crosshairs with some comments. But I think with criticism to FatShark’s communication, product quality and also the future “performances” one should be able to not take it personally (as an employee of FatShark). And I think most of the people here are not interested in attacking individuals and making their lives difficult. That’s not always easy, especially for CMs and the management department, but that’s just the job of these people and I think in such a position you know that you’re just frequently the target of people’s frustration (something like that is usually unavoidable) and hopefully you can deal with it.

4 Likes

There’s a lot of work to be done on the game, but they haven’t been doing nothing. While we’re all waiting on the next big patch, there have been changes made server side that have already showed up in the last week or so like spawn fixes on the various maps and difficulties.

1 Like

I know what you mean, but away from CM´s, imagine you´re a dev and read pretty much everywhere “how bad and incompetent your work is” etc…
Also i´m sure some stuff is just up to the management and contracts, but in the end it´s the devs, CM´s and designer who have to pay for it.

They may not take it personally, but i guess it´s depressing for everybody working on the game when it gets nothing but hate.

It´s just unneccessary and also way more work to FS to filter out “what´s actually wrong” between dozens of bad posts and nothing but “game sucks” comments. I guess it´s just another reason why they chose to use a survey instead of reading through all threads here or somewhere else.

In kind of side-content or classes it´s a matter of taste anyway. You can´t cater everybody with everything and changing the game 100 times because another group of poeple dislikes certain mechanics is nonsense.

War of the Roses is still the fifth most played game in my library and they shut it down almost six years ago. I wasn’t even CLOSE to being anywhere near the same amount of hours/money spent on that game as some of the more hardcore players.

They will 100% kill Darktide as soon as it stops being as profitable as they think it should be.

2 Likes

Solid strawman argument here. I never said it was copy/paste from VT2 systems. Fact is, you have no idea how much code or assets are re-used from VT2.

To answer your first question: yes. I expect them to keep communicating ESPECIALLY when things get difficult. That’s literally their job description. Do you get to stop doing your job when you expect it to be difficult?

See above, you don’t have the slightest clue how easy or immeasurably complex the cash shop is.

VT2’s issues at launch were mostly technical. It had a story, 15 classes, build variety, tons of weapons, functional crafting, all missions selectable, and a cool hub. The bare minimum expectation for Darktide is to launch with feature parity to a game that released 4 years ago.

The REAL expectation is that Darktide should have launched with all the feedback and improvements that VT2 has received over the last 4 years but that bar is clearly too high for a studio like FatShark.

Just to focus on this: no, it isn’t and it’s not. The game crashes for so many people. The loading times are ridiculous. Gun customization was a promised feature that was removed, crafting is a basic feature and isn’t implemented, the 71+ weapons was a lie as well, missions re-use assets and areas, and there is no story written by Dan Abnett as promised.

  • Character creation is useless and you can clearly see some are more fleshed out than others
  • purchasable cosmetics? VT2 had that at launch and cool glowing weapon skins and … gasp way to actually obtain it through gameplay!
  • You’re right, there are more weapons, traits, and blessings but there is no way to obtain them reliably. They are locked behind RNG systems
  • weeklies? They are absolutely terrible and not shared between characters. I know weeklies were added later in VT2 but Twitch mode was an AWESOME modifier than DT can’t compare with right now
  • the servers are terrible
  • “advanced gameplay”? :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl: if it was so much more advanced than VT2, why did people clear Damnation at lv15?
  • Review above what I said about twitch mode, the modifiers are terrible lol

FS are currently ignoring this forum lol, are you kidding me?

You paint criticism as “flaming”. You choose your words deliberately. Be specific please, what major issues did FS address with the game? What portion of the game has been significantly improved?

Again, the community isn’t in the wrong here. It’s normal to buy a game and expect it to work. Having to scour the forums to find homebrewed solutions is a normal thing to you?

1 Like

You missinterpret my question. It´s about if you expect to just continue patching the game the way they wanted or do you want changes? 100% sure they would get even more flamed if they patch blessings, maps, cosmetics and ignore all the issues ppl claim to be some. Why do you think they actually made a survey?!

V2 had a bunch of issues at release, even gamebreaking stuff like the range-meta, a quite bad balancing, crashes and performance issues as we´ve here, no bad luck protection, and and and…

Why should they just make a copy of V2 with some tweaks? They tried something different and away from all the “all is made to make me buy” assumptions, they listened in one or another way and tried it to make different.

  • Character-creation is fine and a lot of ppl like such features more than predefined “heros”.
  • V2 had only some old skins glowing if you´ve found them as red items, like wow… but there was no other chance to get more of them. No matter if it´s cashshop or via ingame-cash, it´s a feature.
  • Traits and blessings are still behind RNG in V2 aswell. You reroll like 100 times. Even weapons as loot are behind RNG and stuff like green dust or red items got fixed later. Also you get way less loot per hour in V2.
  • You´ve never played on bad servers if you think this one here are terrible i guess. They´re completely fine.
  • Yes advanced gameplay. It got mixed up and got more precise. And imagine Cata was not even a thing in V2, but the game was still not hard. The difference is, that V2 relies too hard on hero power based on the character-level, meanwhile DT scales more with skill than just stats. Also of course, if you´ve put like 1000h+ into V2, you´ve an easy life in DT. Other poeple still struggle hard especially in melee-combat.
  • Not everyone liked twitchmode you know? Any “more horde” deed or deeds without skills have been way more difficult than twitch mode, which might even made the game a nobrainer at some point.

No matter how you think about it, it doesn´t change the fact, that those things were not in V2 at release or are still not a thing. They focused on different aspects in DT and that´s not a bad thing, because it actually keeps things more fresh than just a Vermintide 2.5 version.

The CM´s are here and still listening, but again… try to do their job and scroll through all the flaming-pages to find out the valid feedback. It´s shitty to do that.

And just check out the patches before they went into vacation. The performance got better for a lot of poeple, some stuff got fixed, some classes / weapons got nerfed and buffed. Also some penances got tweaked after its initial feedback.
We got more missions, we got more modifier etc…

Are there still crashes and performance issues that needs to be fixed? Should crafting be fully implemented? Of course…
But the other list of issues like e.g. “Class X is a mess.” or “I hate RNG.” or “I don´t want low levels in my lobbies.” are highly subjective. Some like it, others don´t. And that´s just another reason why they made a survey instead of just looking at all the “It´s a mess.” posts. They want as most feedback as possible from ALL players. Those who enjoy the game and those who´ve issues with different aspects.

1 Like

Liking the game is perfectly ok. But unfortunately it doesn’t change all the problems it has, which a majority of people just don’t like. And you can talk up the game as much as you want… the Steam ratings paint a different picture. Sure, as a developer it’s frustrating to be confronted with bad feedback and to have to rethink your vision, but this is an essential process to adapt products to the needs of the consumer and to create a product that sells well for the developer. You may not be able to please everyone, that’s not even the point, but finding a " common ground" wouldn’t be bad.

When it comes to the comparison with V2 that is made here…
Darktide is not really more than a copy of V2 gameplay, the only real innovation is the shield that charges up near team members, everything else was already there in a similar form in V2. Flamethrower, projectile weapons, special attacks, everything has been there before. The options the player has are not really that different. Only the game experience has evolved from a constant threat of melee units (V2) to a peek-a-boo shooter. You can like that… but it’s not really my cup of tea. About the side systems (Deeds/Twitch/Crafting etc) we do not really have to discuss… these are in V2 also not the crowning glory of creation, but at least they exist. And the selection that Deeds offer I would hardly want to compare with a mutator that remains the same for weeks, which you often can not even avoid. It’s really hard for me to find anything positive in Darktide when it comes to sub systems. But yes, that is also my subjective opinion, let’s hope that the survey brings more clarity…

Difficult. They are still there, yes. But let’s be honest, the recent activity is already very questionable… I’m only here once in a while on the weekend or after work and occasionally click through a few topics, but that gives me a reading time of 3 daysHedge’s and Aqshy’s is one day each and Catfish’s is only 39 minutes in total… and that’s actually their job. But maybe they can read VERY quickly and take it all in…

which makes 6.3 million dissatisfied customers

Darth_angeal is a FS employee. No other possibility.
There is not even one critic in all his posts, he forgives everything of FS even the unacceptable and spent his time on this forum at defending the company.

Seriously, it is not possible to be so happy of a game with so little progress in updates and communication from devs.

3 Likes

A troll you all keep feeding every single damn day.

He manages to derail every single post because everyone is EAGER to answer him about how wrong he is, seriously, stop feeding the trolls, can’t believe I still have to repeat this phrase after 20+ years of online forums.

EDIT: Look at this thread

From the moment this troll joined, the thread was over, you all, and I mean YOU all because you particularly engaged with him A LOT, fed him to the point the thread doesn’t matter anymore, that thread is done for and waiting to be closed by a CM, good one, troll wins.

In other words, ignore trolls, don’t answer to them, and they’ll leave, since they only seek attention.

6 Likes

I mean, that makes sense to us but the Chinese overlord wants its cashmoney NOW.

Nothing against that seriously and i´m fully with you to say, that a “common ground” is needed.

It´s just like i said above, that it´s hard to filter the actual needs and valid points poeple make up within all the shitstorm and pointless arguments / threads. And there we are:

I don´t know about them, but if i would be CM, i would jump in here, read just another 5 topics with headlines being like “39%, 1 month no update” or something and could go back to my usual work within a minute. It´s just bashing, venting or however you want to name it. No chance i would interact with the community when i don´t have something in my hands i could give out. The time where some “kind words” help against all those frustrated consumers is gone since EA.

You don´t have to be happy to be realistic. Said it already in the other thread, it´s obvious how things are right now. It´s up to you if you think constant bashing or pointless threads “as a reminder” will lead to something. I can promise you it won´t, mabye helps you and others to vent, but that´s it.

I´ve my own criticism on the game and its state, even if i´ve a pretty stable version of the game, dw. But even then i can also see how some sidesystems attract some kind of gamers and that the game has a solid base to build on. If you want to talk about it, then we can talk about it. But i´m tired of poeple posting nothing else but “It´s a mess!” or are not even able to think about the stuff written down, because all they want is to bash against FS instead of interacting with different topics and some real feedback / criticism.

1 Like

But that already happened. There were plenty of conversations that were less rage filled and more about requesting information. We’re past that now. You seem to want us all to let FS urinate on our shoes while they’re telling us it’s raining. That aint gonna happen. Some of us, including myself, were still defending DT after Christmas. But I only get slapped in the face a few times before I slap back. And I’m at that point. I was optimistic after the Pre-Launch Beta, and that optimism has been drained by lack of communication, and empty promises that have gone unfulfilled. So you aren’t wrong. Anger and resentment and venting while screaming accomplished very little. But since they aren’t interacting with us, or keeping their word do they deserve praise and well mannered posts asking politely for updates? I guess that comes down to the individual. I for one am done being patient. They got my money. I got a hot pile of garbage. Seems fair? Should I kiss their collective asses for giving me a hot pile of garbage? I don’t think so.

1 Like

Mate i truly get your point and i can understand your frustration, even from others. But be realistic like “what would you do?”. I really don´t want to defend FS by any means or so… i´m still waiting for stuff to be released aswell.
But what helps and what doesn´t? I can only bring NMS again… put your heads down and focus to fix the stuff. I mean… just look at another thread where Catfish said they want to bring more infos and so hopefully early this week. Poeple immediately started to ask and to expect the worst. And if they can´t bring something big with value, the next shitstorm is pre-programmed.

No need to kiss their whatever or to praise FS. Absolutely not… But it also doesn´t help to make their work harder than it already is, when all what you / we want should be served as fast as possible.