Darktide is Mostly negative on Steam with 39% recent reviews

I give you my opinion. Yes for me.
BUT, it would not stop bad reviews and would not bring back any players and would surely make several quit the game.

I have never said that this was a review bomb, which to my mind is when people leave reviews for something completely unrelated to the game such as one developer saying something dumb on a forum or a tweet. It may mirror your friends list, it may mirror your experience, it may even be true, but it is still a small sample and only represents the view of a small minority.

All I am saying, really, is that I cannot take people seriously who make broad claims about what any large group of people think. We speak mainly for ourselves and maybe for the few people we interact closely with.

If we want things to change, we are much better of voicing and objectively motivating our own concerns rather than somehow trying to make people think that we speak for the community as a whole. We don’t, and devs mostly know this (and here I am speaking for devs, make of that what you will).

I can highly recommend the blog Ask a Game Dev https://askagamedev.tumblr.com. He also only speaks for himself, but I have found his posts to be an insightful view into the other side of game development. He mostly just speaks common sense though.

Fair enough (theoretically), but you do make the counterclaim that it’s a loud minority, so you’re not really only speaking for yourself. I would also like to point out that the below doesn’t make sense. You claim it’s a loud minority but you also claim that it may be a majoroty.

Most people = majority (>50%)
Loud minority = a large group of people that are in minority


Based on the information we have, reviews, user made questionnaire, how the game is being discussed by the majority of players seen discussing the game, and the ever dwindling number of players, we sure have some strong indicators of the public opinion regarding the game.

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What’s an appropriate sample to assume representative of the majority then? Mostly negative on steam is 29% positive of 4,583 reviews, which is a pretty large sample size. By all means, it probably reflects the views of the majority pretty well.

53% of 54 965 players.
Largest sample.

You can take the numbers you want, but the peak was at more than 107 450. So something like 50% have posted a review, and, on this sample, 53% have posted a positive one.

Even with that I would say that all these numbers mean nothing.
When you check all reviews, most of them say that Darktide is a great game BUT… and the but is making the review negative cause on steam the question is ā€œwould you advice this game?ā€
The current state of the game forbids me to advice it, a lot should have think like me.

So, actually, the only thing we can consider is the number of players. And on this, the numbers are enough clear. There are far less players.
Will it start to increase again after the patch? that’s the question.
If it doesn’t increase will it mean that crafting is the problem? No.
From what I read, several points a game unfinished and a lack of content. Crafting will ā€œfinishā€ the game… but there are too few missions to make the game not repetitive.

You said it already, the core-issue is content. The game has its issues and poeple can be mad about crafting as they want, but we had pretty much the same playercount back in the day when V2 released. V2 had issues aswell, but it had less performance issues and more classes, even godrolls and weapon-crafting.

I can just repeat it again… the game series is niche. ItĀ“s fun for a couple of hours while being new to the series, but it gets stale pretty fast for a lot of poeple, because itĀ“s just rinse and repeat and that not even on a level of a rogue-like game.

WhatĀ“s on top is the gameplay, but the most players these days need rewards and variety to play for, and that is something the series never or only rarely offers. So if youĀ“re not that kind of ā€œi want to improveā€ player, then you wonĀ“t play this game further than level 30 + a handful of missions, maybe a 2nd char, but thatĀ“s it.

Of course the crafting-patch will bring back some players who waited for it. But a lot will stay away, because it“s no new content and nothing to explore for them. If they want to get more players into the game, then we need atleast 7 more maps, something like raids i“ve suggested or / and a chaos wastes mode.
And even then weĀ“re at the point of V2 in kind of content and we donĀ“t see really high numbers there aswell… Why? Still because its niche and itĀ“ll stay like this unless we get a real progress-system where poeple can dive into.

EDIT: Spelling…

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I find it weird when people always say a game is niche whenever it couldn’t hold player count.

I played Gundam Evolution and there were a lot of player at first. It have some glaring problems and there were a lot of complaining. Developer didn’t listen to feedback and the game (obviously) failed miserably. It only have 500~ish concurrent player at the moment.

and you know what people were saying to defend the game? ā€˜Gundam is a niche franchise, of course it would have low player count’
Yeah, it’s not because of the terrible managment or the incompetent dev. The game is doomed from the start because it’s niche…right?

You know what game is also used to be niche? Monster Hunter.
Monster Hunter is literally an unknown series to most people until Monster Hunter World release. It have become one of the most popular capcom game since then. Now it’s pretty much an example of how live service game should be done. Also it actually have competent dev.

People probably would use the ā€˜niche game’ excuse too if it fail, but it didn’t.

I’m not saying ā€˜niche game’ excuse is bad though, there are tons of great game that didn’t get a lot of exposure because it’s actually a niche genre, but when it’s apparent that a game have a lot of player at the beginning but fail to hold onto them due to mismanagement. The ā€˜niche game’ excuse just become really stupid.

Also you would think a game about space Dwarf mining mineral while fending off bugs sound like a niche game. That same game have around 12k~ concurent player as of right now. All of it is because the dev actually care and love their game, and player love them back.

Darktide could have achieve greatness like two of the game I mention, but too bad it have come to this. Now it probably will just struggle along the way and become 2nd Vermintide at best. Unless a miracle happen I guess.

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I think that you are right. Especially if we consider that this game takes place in the WH40k universe.
But what we both said with Darth_Angeal is also true. There are not enough maps and missions.
I perfectly know that they won’t be released now and that the devs cannot work on this, but when you check reviews on Steam you can see that several point the lack of content
And that’s true, you end playing the same maps in a loop.

I proposed something about (mini maps used as tiles to get random maps with random conditions and random mission objective) but the truth is that the problem cannot be addressed for now.
I don’t have a problem with that. I love this game. However, it will make customers staying away of the game until more content is added. This doesn’t mean that the numbers won’t change, however I would not bet on a massive return.
Even if the ā€œRNGā€ was removed, I don’t think that the massive return would happen. Worst, I think that several would leave cause there would be nothing that would remain to do.

That goes for both positive and negative reviews, in case you only checked the ones not recommending the game. If people who are recommending it is doing it with the caveat ā€œbuy laterā€ then that does speak loudly for itself as well…

sigh

It’s a small sample size, but if even those who enjoy this kind of gameplay to an extreme extent are dropping the game this soon, then it is quite telling. I can count myself among those as well.

I’m not sure how you formed the opinions you expressend in that post (referring to both the quote and the rest of the post) but it’s definitely not on point if you’re looking at the core userbase that spent hours and hours on the game. If anything, that kind of content will (I think) will mostly serve to keep new players around for an hour or two longer. Not saying new/more content isn’t necessary, but it’s only a small piece of the puzzle. I dare say that content such as classes is more important than maps for a large number of people.

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That’s true. But if you check reviews you can see that few are pointing the RNG.
Nearly all reviews say that the core is great… but game is in early access state (not finished, several point the unfinished crafting system) and the game lacks content.
Until crafting I cannot, myself, advice this game. Once crafting will be here, considering the price, I can advice the game (but off course with pointing the problems: RTX that gets the game crash, bugs (Rashad is not yet fixed :face_with_symbols_over_mouth:!!!), content limited).
The fact is that the core game is really fun. Until the next patch, the actual crafting is just frustration. But after this patch, we will be able to get good weapons more easily. This was the point that was forbidding me to advice this game.

After 500 hours, believe me… maps will be your concern as well.
But off course subclasses is part of what I call ā€œcontentā€.

But actually, I begin to know every grimoire / script location, every chest, every hidden part of the map and also where the hordes spawn and from where.
There’s really a need of a system that renew the pleasure constantly. That was my proposition (post 1, post 2), but something like the Chaos map of VT2 can also be good.
I believe that what I described can be done and that it could permit to release small maps instead of gigantic maps. A small map can be designed faster.
But, I have no illusion, it won’t come now. Cause, they need to port the game to Xbox, they will surely release weapons and they need to release also the subclasses you want as they had announced it.

He’s not the hero we want, and also not the hero we deserve.
download (2)

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Yes, but only a fraction of people who own the game leave reviews.

I’m not saying that the criticism is invalid. I personally agree with a lot of what is being said (not all) and I think there is absolutely no excuse for releasing unfinished titles like this. By that is my own personal opinion.

All I am saying is that you should make your arguments based on actual problems that you find with the game rather than trying to invent a number on the fly about how many people you think may agree with you. Your argument must stand on its own. You don’t have the authority to speak for anyone but yourself.

Absolutely not.

I am guilty of absolutely everything that I am advocating that people do not do.

But rather than quoting when I state that I subjectively try to state that something is true, try to find a quote where I proper to speak for someone else. I’m sure you’ll find one, I’m guilty of having a bad day and posting rash and not thought through posts as well, but I really try to avoid it.

And yes, I’m pissed at FS for releasing the game rather than delaying until it was done.

None of us deserve heroes, and absolutely not me.

That’s because the huge issue with RNG and lack of player agency really only comes up when you have at least one character on max level and then spend 10+ hours more on trying to get a specific weapon to try out.
A lot of people on Steam quit the game when they saw all the technical issues, lack of polish and generally the feeling that the game is in early beta state.

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It could be true… however nothing permits you to affirm it.
I believe it is more a vision of old VT2 players that are considering DT has downgraded crafting. In fact, they have just reproduced what they did in VT2. They start with low stats and low freedom and things will get better by the time being cause there will be new players to integrate and also you need to give something to do to the player base already there with their maxed weapons.
If you start the weapons at 100% with all freedom… there is nothing you can allow them when you release a dlc. Permit them to get weapon at 110%, 120%? not really an option.

Anyways, in reviews what is pointed is the unfinished stated of the game (especially crafting not here), the stability problems, the lack of communication and patches and the lack of content. These are the items that you can see in most of the reviews.
Crafting will come, stability should be fixed by the time (not enough fast obviously), lack of communication… this is FS… lack of content… here the problem will surely stay cause they can’t, at the same time, develop new content and port the game to the consoles.

Yes, because, as I’ve explained in the post above yours, the RNG fest and lack of player agency only becomes apparent when you level up at least one character to max level.

There is zero incentive to even interact with the crafting system while leveling.
Why would you waste plasteel on a weapon that you will outlevel in about 5h of gameplay? Not to mention that you would probably want to test a different weapon you unlocked while leveling (if you are lucky enough to actually get it).
If, like me, you leveled all 4 chars to 30, it’s likely you will have 100+ hours of gameplay before you even start thinking about crafting and finding out that the system is super random and disrespectful to player’s time.

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Not necessarily pertinent to this discussion but an interesting stat:


Percentage of people reaching lvl 30 once.


Percentage of people doing it twice.

Having four sits at 2.5%

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Your opinion. But unless it is written in reviews… nothing is confirming your opinion.
Again, what I see is what I quoted. You cannot say if that the players would have grief against the RNG.
You don’t like RNG and consider it as the main problem. You have the right to express it.
However, when an user say I don’t like this and that, you cannot say that he has forgotten something and surely wanted to point, as his main concern, something else.

I know some poeple doing so, and why? Because they just play the game just for fun and don“t want to cut themselves even while leveling.
The crafting materials won“t run away aswell. It“s just you and others who wants godrolls and the possibility to perma-reroll stuff to try whatever you can believe. A lot just play the game and enjoy the gameplay without taking care for high stats and wasting their time to hit breakpoints.

Don“t get me wrong, i get your point. But just because you don“t have an incentive to ignore crafting while leveling doesn“t mean everyone is doing so.
As iĀ“ve said earlier, the real issue of this game is content and some sort of real endgame. The whole series shows it since V2 had ā€œa more respectfulā€ crafting and its reditems. But the game isnĀ“t that popular aswell.

You are fighting imaginary strawmen again, I see.
I never even suggested anyone forgot anything in the reviews.

You want to push the narrative that people have issues with crafting not being finished as opposed to crafting being just bad.

If you actually read the reviews on Steam, you quickly realize that crafting is mentioned mainly in 2 contexts:

  • ā€œpremium shop is live, and other stuff is missingā€ (the whole premium shop outrage)
  • ā€œgame is not finishedā€ (and then list crafting as just one of the things)"

These are points you can make in the first 1 hour of gameplay.

If you think Steam reviews would look significantly different if only the crafting was finished, or that, somehow, people will come back to the game when there is more RNG added to the game (oh, but the crafting is finished now, guys!"), then I think you are delusional.

I can also use bad faith arguments like you and say: ā€œOK, let’s see if the review score changes once crafting is completeā€ to construct the narrative that finished crafting was never an issue people cared about, knowing that the score won’t change simply because not a lot of people will be bothered to change their reviews on Steam anyway.

In short:

  • Do people want crafting to be finished?
    Yes
  • Will that significantly make progression better?
    No
  • Will we have a rework of the system to give more player agency?
    Maybe (100% no, if no one asks for it)
  • Does this game have any future if the progression system isn’t significantly reworked?
    I would say no b/c it works against player retention. You’d probably disagree and that’s fine.
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