Damage reduction (and power vs ... ) properties

Dear Fatshark,
these are some of my thoughts regarding the enemy-related properties. I am fully aware that there had to be a lot of balancing testing and that a lot of the current situation is based on that, but I wanted to share these few ideas, even though they may sound naive to you.

If there is any kind of statistics regarding the traits and properties that are most often used in legend games by the most regular players, I would really like to know how often properties are used, especially the Damage Reduction ones.

IMHO:

  1. Damage reduction properties

I would kindly suggest that these protective properties are reworked:
a) Damage reduction should have different and a lot higher values, depending on the protection type. If the necklace provides protection against both skavens and chaos, it should be within 5-10% range. More common special enemies like armoured should be in 5-15% range. Less common enemies, e.g. berserkers, should be in 15-30% range, and specific protection against individual specials causing significant damage (ratlings or blightstormers) up to 60%.

b) There should also be specific protection against disablers and other specials, just like in V1. E.g. if the player has protection against assassins, the assassin should inflict (some) damage, interrupt the character’s action, stun the character for the longest period, and disappear, but not be able to disable the character. Considering that there are only two slots for such protections and that there are more than two types of disablers…

  1. Power vs. …

I believe that the same principle as in 1. a) should apply to these properties, i.e. the rarer the enemy, the higher the percentage, although the ranges shouldn’t be so high, e.g. max 5% for generic chaos/skaven categories, 15-20% for rare enemies like monsters or berserkers.

Eh, you can already build characters to one shot mobs with melee using power vs. Adding more damage to that is going to be broken, even if you reduce power vs horde mobs. As for more damage vs monsters, you can build for 40% damage vs chaos monsters or skaven monsters. Most people don’t because they’re already so easy, it’s not needed. Instead they go for SV breakpoints or CWs. You could also build for beserker power vs, again, most people don’t. As you rarely see them, even in legend. You might get a pack of them once per game. Some maps like the mine have them every game right before the end game boss troll.

As for damage reduction, I’ve tried it a bit in the past. You can’t seem to roll damage reduction vs both skaven and chaos. Or, I was just really unlucky. But, at the end of the day, 20% more HP and stamina on the necklace is always the better choice. Unless you need block reduction for a Sienna build to get that 100% block rate.

Regarding the damage inflicted, I’m well aware of the fact, although I doubt majority of the players do such builds (I might be wrong, but I don’t have the data). I just think that the benefit of the rarer encounters should be a lot higher because you are giving up a more general advantage.

As far as I know, you cannot have both skaven/chaos at the same time. Which is kind of the point: those properties are overall unattractive, as opposed to no-brainers like the one’s you’vre mentioned, or push/block angle.

Well, you actually can have vs chaos vs skaven - but only on charm :slight_smile:

You want more than 40% damage increase against bosses or elite? That seems a bit over powered mate… Considering when you build for let’s say, 40% extra damage vs chaos bosses(2x monster on charm/ranged and 2x chaos on charm/range), you’re still getting the effect of that 20% chaos on other chaos mobs you shoot with your ranged as well as 20% more boss damage on skaven bosses as well. I just don’t see this happening. By your example, of increasing power vs monsters, you’d end up with 80% more damage against bosses. It would be like recruit mode.

Smoker:
Well, the numbers are up for discussion, of course, but what I want is better effect for the rarer properties. You yourself said, regarding the damage reduction: “But, at the end of the day, 20% more HP and stamina on the necklace is always the better choice. Unless you need block reduction for a Sienna build to get that 100% block rate.” Which is also generally applicable to the power, although to a lesser degree.

Kratos:
Thanks, I didn’t know that. I really like the concept of the properties and traits (a table like the one here https://www.reddit.com/r/Vermintide/comments/82qru7/all_possible_item_properties_and_traits/ would have been nice in the beginning), as opposed to the forbidden combinations in V1, which is why I dislike how that concept is broken by making chaos/skaven combination impossible on other items.

The Power vs. Properties stack, so they can give you quite a large advantage. Their purpose is to tweak your effectiveness against particular enemy types while leaving the others at default; that is, customising your character. If you want to specialize heavily, you need heavy investment, and that’s it.

Most of them are quite fine, especially because of the stacking, but Berserker is woefully underpowered. While all the others hit either several enemies, or few significant (either tough, like Monsters, or ubiquitous, like Armored) ones, Berserker hits exactly two, one on each faction, that are hard to find useful breakpoints to. Savages and Monks are tough enough that finding one-hit breakpoints is rare, their fighting style is such that you rarely get more than one hit in initially (and after surviving their combo, they’re trivial anyway), and they’re relatively rare anyway.

The DR Properties, on the other hand… If some protection is given against a certain enemy type or certain kind of attack, it needs to be worthwile. They’re not even roughly in line with other Properties’ effectiveness. Extra Health can give 20% more toughness against everything. Stamina can give (depending on weapon) up to 50% boost in its area, even if it’s more limited. DR gives… 10% against some things. It’s not worth it. Then again, I thin the Necklace Properties aren’t really there altogether; I have Extra Health on every necklace, and frankly, the other one I don’t care about. I have DR vs. Chaos on one, BCR on another, Stamina on third - and the primary thing that solves what I use is the Trait. I have no particular need for either second Property on a single Career on weapon - while Slayer did get a lot of mileage out of Stamina, even that is reduced now. I’m not happy with the DR Properties’ effectiveness, and I still use one - because there also isn’t anything more valuable for that second slot.

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