Damage difference between Barrage and Hunter

Issue Summary:
So apparently, the 25% from Hunter are calculated differently than the 25% from Barrage. Just dabbled a bit with it on modded realm after somehow getting the feeling there was something off with it after having had both on drakefire cannon. 30% more damage against chaos and armour on 2h hammer with 25% barrage stack deals 30 damage on bodyshot against CW. With 25% Hunter bonus, it is 29. Just thought I’d leave this here since it seems unintended that 25% from one source are worse than 25% from another.

Steps to Reproduce:

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Rare (< 10%)
Unusual (< 25%)
Common (< 50%)
Often (< 75%)
Constant (100%)

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Probably has something to do with Hunter affecting power vs. Armor and how power vs. Armor and race stack.
Be curious to see if there is a damage difference with no power vs properties on the items.

I figured it has something to do with how fractions are rounded or because the “raw” power is a different multiplier.

Well hunter is x1.25 once and barrage is 1.05 + 1.05 + …
That’s my guess as well unless it’s even 1.05^5 that would equal a total 27.6% increase.

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That could also very well be the case. Welcome to Vermintide, where the % are made up and the loot doesn’t matter.

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For even more confusion, check out FK with 2h hammer with identical specs, then use charge with Glory Hound (+25% power). Guess how much damage light attack bodyshot does against CW!

For EVEN MORE confusion, use HS with “I’m coming for ya” (+20 power). Guess how much damage light attack bodyshot does against CW!

Wanna know how much damage one does with Merc Kruber and full “the more the merrier” stack does?

With “Reikland Reaper”, it is also 30.

With Both Reikland Reaper and full TMTM stack, it is 34.

So… if one 3x5 power stack and one 15% power stack give MORE power the 25% hunter stack and apparently as much as a 5x5 power stack from Barrage… how does that work?

@LuiKangBakingAPie, let me show you a little example.

In first case we have 600 base HP, 10% vs armour, 10% vs chaos and Hunter. Hunter adds 25% pwr vs armour if u’re hitting CW, so in the end u have 35% vs armour and 10% vs chaos, wich results in 600 (base HP) x 1.35 (pwr vs armour modifier) x 1.1 (pwr vs chaos modifier) = 891 HP.

In the second case we got all the same stats but 5 stacks of Barrage instead of Hunter. Difference is, Barrage stacks multiplicatively with other pwr sources, which means 600 (base HP) x 1.1 (vs armour modifier) x 1.1 (vs chaos modifier) x 1.25 (Barrage modifier) = 907 HP.

I hope you’ve got the difference, the same is true for +pwr talents, and don’t forget, the more modifiers to base HP you have the bigger will be difference between Barrage and Hunter, also if you got no other +pwr bonuses exept this tho traits they are roughly equal.


Does that explain the other stuff I postet though? Seems to be rather inconsistent even with that explanation.
It also kinda means that Hunter is objectively worse than Barrage except for its duration, which is usually not an issue.

Look at this outdated sheet and read Game mechanics & info and Enemy info parts to understand power stacking in this game better, or you can just complain more about “I don’t understand how this shіt works!”.

Why the hostility? I was simply asking a question, I was not complaining about anything.
You might have noticed from one of my earlier posts that I already acknowledged that it had something to do with how the multipliers added up. It still seems rather inconsistent and that’s why I elaborated on my findings. It’s counter-intuitive and makes, an already VERY situational weapon trait, even more so compared to Barrage. Just because it works in a certain way (and it still seems a bit wonky that the 15% raw power from one ability somehow trump 25% more raw power from another ability) doesn’t mean it SHOULD work that way. It seems needlessly complicated when numbers basically don’t mean anything and kinda explains why they were so hesitant to write out numerical values next to abilities and such at the beginning. “x% more power” means nothing if it depends on calculations that are not immediately transparent.
If you need to refer to an (outdated, mind you) excel sheet to know how multipliers work, you kinda fail at this regard as a game designer.

Except its NOT inconsistent. Its is always consistent.
Its just a formula.
I dunno…it all makes sense to me.
Nothing further to add @Nilter explained it well enough.

Either way this is not a bug.

Hunter situational? Its a good trait to run on a career with high crit chance. Only requires one crit to proc, lasts longer than barrage, always hitting some neat breakpoints.
I have been using Hunter on my WS longbow build and I quite like it.

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